This is some info on my Road Glides' recent 98 TQ Dyno run and how I got there on a BUDGET. I know, I know, Harley's and Budget don't mix. Like cats and chickens But anyone who knows me, knows how much I like to spend money...[:@] Anyway...IMHO...this wasn't cheap...however compared to what some folks spend....this was a steal.

Any who....
First I would love to take credit for all this, however I MUST give credit to PhilM. This was his design and implementation. My contribution was to weed out the expensive parts of the design and go for the biggest BANG for the buck. Much to PhilM's dislike

The Goals:
1) Don't spend a ton of money
2) Get maximum low end TQ
3) Don't spend a ton of money
4) Be able to get it all done in one day

Phase 1
I ran my stock bike for about 10k. I mean complete stock. Stock Pipes. Stock Air. Stock everything (Man, I could REALLY hear the radio back then). I then found a steal on ebay. ( in hind sight, this wasnt such a good deal because it costed me 10x the cost of the pipes for the rest of this upgrade

The Parts:
1) New D&D 2.5" slip-ons. Back Cut. $130 inc shipping
2) Arlen Ness Big Sucker Air Kit. Stage 1. $90 inc shipping
3) Power Commander USB $270 inc shipping.
4) Free Custom map for this config (http://www.fuelmotousa.com/
5) Labor from a friend who knows what the he!! he is doing......priceless.

Phase 1 Total $490
Ouch. Yeah...that hurts.


The Results:
74 TQ
70 HP
Not Bad.


Phase 2
OK...so my next down fall was asking too many details about how motors work. This was sparked by Allen's aquisiton of a HD Big Bore Kit. So I started asking STUPID questions about displacement, Cams, Stroke, heads, etc etc etc ( The reason these questions were STUPID is because they led down the path of spending money [:@]

I decided a 95" upgrade, Cam upgrades and that was it. No Head work. No 2 into 1 pipe. No adj push rods. No gear drive Cams. Just two simple upgrades.

The Parts:
1) Andrews TW26a Cams $205 inc shipping
2) SE Flat Top Pistons $108 inc shipping
3)Cam and Head Gasket Sets $75
4) Jugs Bored for 95" $150 inc tax http://www.chopperalleycustoms.com/
5) Cams Pressed $100 (with Cam shoe replacement NOT an upgrade, but while I had it opened) http://www.chopperalleycustoms.com/
6) Professional Dyno by a guy who knows what He is doing $200 http://sabinperformance.com/
7) Labor from a friend who has a passion for Harley's priceless

Phase 2 Total $838
Ouch. Yeah...that hurts More....

Grand Total inc tax; shipping; service....EVERYTHING

$1328


The Results
98 TQ
82 HP
Sweeeeeeet [sm=burnout.gif]

We started at 9 am Saturday. We had stripped a seat bolt that required it to be cut off and replaced. This took about 2 hours of unexpected time. JB weld a new bolt in place and kept on rocking. We had the engine apart in about 4 hours and started putting it all back together. It was an awesome experience to see the machine apart and to see how it all works inside. We missed the 1 day goal becasue of a MINOR mistake, but that happens. We were up and running mid morning the next day.

MAN!!!! AM I ever happy with this. It is totally awesome. I can't thank PhilM enough for his time and patience. This bike is A1 responsive. It is totally GREAT. MAN I HAD FUN DRIVING IT HOME IN 95 DEGREE HEAT!!!


Here are some Pics of the work and DYNO Chart.

[IMG]http://img

 

Just think - your main question before was.... "Will I really be able to tell a difference?"

Well.... Can ya? Cresting 90ft/lbs of torque at 2750RPMs should make for a really sweet and fun ride!!! BTW - I need to ride that thing!



I honestly thought we'd get 90/90 out of it, but the 98ft/lbs of torque make the 82hp LARGELY irrelevant (sp?).

You're very welcome & I'm glad it worked out to your satisfaction!

 

thanks for callin me to watch the dyno....enjoyed meeting yall...hope to ride together soon

 

I agree with you. I am not out racing my ride at 5.5k RPM...so HP really won't make a difference to me. 95% of the time I am <4k RPM. Here is an interesting article.

The Case for Torque
First of all, from a driver's perspective, torque, to use the vernacular, RULES :-). Any given car, in any given gear, will accelerate at a rate that *exactly* matches its torque curve (allowing for increased air and rolling resistance as speeds climb). Another way of saying this is that a car will accelerate hardest at its torque peak in any given gear, and will not accelerate as hard below that peak, or above it. Torque is the only thing that a driver feels, and horsepower is just sort of an esoteric measurement in that context. 300 foot pounds of torque will accelerate you just as hard at 2000 rpm as it would if you were making that torque at 4000 rpm in the same gear, yet, per the formula, the horsepower would be *double* at 4000 rpm. Therefore, horsepower isn't particularly meaningful from a driver's perspective, and the two numbers only get friendly at 5252 rpm, where horsepower and torque always come out the same.

In contrast to a torque curve (and the matching pushback into your seat), horsepower rises rapidly with rpm, especially when torque values are also climbing. Horsepower will continue to climb, however, until well past the torque peak, and will continue to rise as engine speed climbs, until the torque curve really begins to plummet, faster than engine rpm is rising. However, as I said, horsepower has nothing to do with what a driver *feels*.

 

Newbie here with a question. I jsut joined so I could get some HP/TQ info. I have a 02 Ultra, 95ci, new open pipes, edlebrock racing heads and intake, and a slightly stronger than stock cam. I just had the bike dyno tuned at a HD dealer in bedford. The bike came back with 80hp and 81tq. I told him I thought that was pretty low considering the changes I had made. He told me that was normal. My question is should I install a PC and have it retuned?? Would it make a big difference. Before the tune the bike would run great on the highway, but spit and backfire in low gear or when leaving a stoplight after the bike heated up. Riding down the main drag in Sturgis this summer was a PIA!!! Also, before the tune, I was getting right at 31mpg on the highway and it would drop down to about 24mpg pulling my trailer behind the bike.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Dave

 

Crunchking, the numbers sound about right, but with that low a gas mileage and the popping I'd think a SERT or a PC properly tuned would do you a world of good...

Your's is set up about like mine (95 kit with mild cams) and the worst gas mileage I've ever gotten is just shy of 40MPG... Almost 45 if I take it easy...

Get it tuned!

 

I have heard mixed results from the Edelbrock package, usually less than advertised #'s. I would expect greater than 80/81 from it, espically if I had spent the $$$ on it. From the sounds of your milage, I bet it's running rich. That config is soooo far from stock that you almost HAVE TO get a PCIII or some sort of fuel management system to make it run right. Interestingly, I would think that the stock ECM config would create a lean situation on your build....????..... but 31mpg is usually not what ya get from a lean motor.

I would suggest a PCIIIusb and dyno tune from someone that really knows what they are doing. Don't trust the Bedford dealership to make this right. Get your PCIII and take it to Sabin Performance in Dallas. He WILL fix it up for ya! I've had my bike and several others in for him to tune. You'll be glad you did!

 

Pipedaddy, what's the gas mileage before/after?

 

Seems like he said it was generally unchanged. 40'ish, depending on riding style.

We went form DFW to Billings, MT (both bikes 2up & loaded with gear) together in June and got just about the same milage the whole way. I was averaging 42~44 and we both got as high as 48 on one tank in the mountains....

 

Phil,
You mention the 48 per tank or 48 miles per gallon in the mountains...48 per tank?
Was this comming down out of or going up?
What was the reasoning for the better milage expecially with the lack of air up there?

BTW
nice job Pipe Daddy
I'm looking to be doing a similar build real soon
paul