Please, you can't be that close minded (or stupid). They are buying speed and power, neither of which Harley-Davidson is know for. As for price a liter race bike is 12K to 15K, they are not just shopping price.

There is a whole hell of alot more to bikes that what H-D offers. H-D is a one trick pony, that knows it market very well.

I bought my H-D's going in eyes wide open, and have kept my eyes open.

 

This we understand, very few ever stated out on a Harley. But most die with a Harley parked in their minds or garage. (mine is parked in my living room it's a hood thing)

Anyway, Harley has the speed and tech. now with the V-Rods. Unless your into track days you can't really get the full benefit of that speed out on the public roads. At least not long enough to keep from losing your license and your savings from all the fines.

Harley is not that one trick pony you thought uh. And a V-Rod is not a throw away bike like most metrics.

 

The V-Rod was 15 year old tech when it debuted. I have one and love to ride it, but it's nothing compared to a sportbike, even a 250 ninja will smoke it on a curvy road.

Sorry, H-D is not speed and tech. I have a V-Rod, it's fast for an H-D but any 600cc jap, english, or german bike will kill it. You can't lean an H-D much past 30 deg before hard parts are on the ground.

There are many places that you can get the full power out on the road. Getting caught by LEO will be a pain in the pocket book.

What doesn H-D offer out side the cruser/touring market? Nothing! H-D sells the life style and is the best at it. Nothing wrong with it or people the ride H-D. I own 2, and love them for what they are intended for.

When I was looking for a touring bike, I test road 3 other touring bike. I road the Goldwing, the BMW K1600 and the H-D EG. I like the H-D best for touring and long riding. But, I wouldn't want it to be my only bike.

Classic meter bike are worth a bit of money now, some are selling for more than their new price.

 

And so you think Harley should be in the performance class ? Please, that would be as bad as all the others who try to copy the cruiser class.

It goes all the way back to what I mention earlier about what motorcycling was originally all about. And it sure as hell wasn't doing the twisties. And by the way I have no issues with what ever segment a rider chooses.

My main points are don't try to change something so you can have the Harley label on it. There are other options out there for those, even in the cruiser segment, if you are looking for water cooled and ground clearance.

Why does this all matter, because if it matter to most traditional Harley riders they would be riding those other brands. And even the so called Harley riders today are a long way away from my background. In other words for a good portion of my life the motorcycle was my only means of transportation, not for boulevard cursing or bar hoping. And at times I literally lived on one, and slept underneath one, and not in my living room.

The problem has been since the 1980's Harley caters to a whole different crowd of people, those with mega disposable incomes. And they ride that brand image you talk about. Haven't a clue about a bikers lifestyle. They had to clean it up after Ronny bailed them out because now they had become part pf Wall-Street.

Who else in their right minds drops $20k + on a 2 wheel barge. It ain't the blue collar people I came up with. But it is what it is, and to each their own. I only have a few more years to ride and I'm going out on a Harley.

Try not to let your vision of the future ruin it for the rest of some of us. I'm an open hwy. type of person, never did care for the 2 lanes or the mountain dragging the knee b.s. Occasionally the blvd. to score a prostitute.

Good luck and when you come to realize and understand what I'm saying you'll then be able to admit to yourself that Starbucks coffee taste bitter and is way over rated. And an iPad cost roughly $46 dollars to produce.

 

Can somebody please tell me what this thread is all about???
For the life of me I can not grasp what our teacher JWR is trying to make us understand.
Can we change the subject to Pledge please, just as stupid but, at least it is clear what we are talking about?

 

Just like every other motor powered vehicle, people started racing bikes, and making more powerful ones. Motorcycle racing has been going on from the beginning, and in the old days H-D was a leader. H-D started to fall behind in the 80's and then changed their marketing plan to the classic bike we have today. It's H-D own written history, not me making it up.

H-D markets, sells, and designs motorcycle for a single group of people.

 

the next giant step for harley will be the roadglide with water-cooling. hopefully, they will get it right...all they have to do is build a more powerful, longer lasting motor that will meet current and future e.p.a. standards! at the same time, they will need to keep the traditional v-twin look and sound. then the price is going to have to be right. maybe upgrade the suspension/handling and loose some weight at the same time.

there is an opportunity for harley to totally dominate the touring market. they could come out with a machine that the rest of the manufacturers could not compete with. harley riders are the most loyal of all bike owners--they are not going elsewhere. what harley needs to do is get the goldwing and bmw riders on harleys. this is their big chance.

 

Isn't that part of the problem now ? What about those of us who can't afford it. Your dreaming if you think Harley can compete if they add the gimmicks. Where paying 30% more now just for the name.

A Gold Wing with reverse, cruise control and 6 cylinders water cooled is under $24k. A BMW isn't all that reliable and their prices are just as outrageous.

Again it's the mid life crisis gang with the disposable incomes that have ruin motorcycling for the rest of us. They'll gladly pay anything, heck most of them will let 'em poke them without a condom.

And you are sorely mistaken if you think they can keep that Harley sound being watered cooled, it will become as artificial as most who ride one. But hang in there you may get your wish. But it will surely cost you. I hear Honda is putting an air bag this year as an option on the Gold Wing. Now that one with all the rest of the goodies is slightly south of $30k.

Get the supply of Vaseline ready.

 

the air bag option has been available for some time on the goldwing. the 6 cylinder bmw will cruise all day long at 100 m.p.h.. both will leave a harley far behind in the twisties.
sound is about all that harley has going for it in a heads up competition with the wings and beemers.
as i stated, harley needs a water-cooled roadglide with adequate horsepower and handling to at least hang with a wing...doubt if they can ever get up to the bmw power and handling. most people realize they do not need or will be able to utilize all the available horsepower--but is sure would be nice to roll on the throttle in high gear at 50-60 miles an hour and quickly pass slower moving vehicles.
you seem overly concerned about cost--motorcycles are a toy for most people--not a primary choice of transportation.
$5 for a titleist golf ball and $500 for a top line driver. $40,000 for a good bay boat(not off-shore), and $10 to $12 a quart for bait shrimp. $65 for a ticket to a n.h.r.a. drag race and $200 for a mediocre seat at a nascar race. $40 for a decent steak at a good(not fancy) steak house. the list goes on. it costs a lot for anything today.
as far as the harley sound goes...to most people it is just loud pipes. the real harley sound went away when fuel injection was added several years ago.
JWR, if you can't afford a harley, buy a metric. they are very dependable, cost a lot less to operate, and you will still be "in the wind". don't blame the mid-life crisis gang with disposable income for ruining motorcycling "for the rest of us". the american dream is to work hard and be able to afford to buy what you want. don't blame people for being successful in life and spending their money as they please.

 

I was rolling right along there with your spiel until the end when it became obvious you where perhaps a Mitt Romney speech writer. Work hard you say. That dream died a long time ago. In fact that so called American dream is only while you sleep.

To get ahead in America today, you have to be as crooked as a Mitt Romney or sell dope. But at one time a person without even a high school diploma could afford to purchase a home and raise a family proper.

My uncle did it after WW2, his class gave rise to the middle class. Prior to the 1940's there was no such thing as a middle class. But we sold off our manufacturing base to pad the stock portfolio's.

What is left in America for the average schmuck is dope sales or prostitution. Even a college degree is no longer a guarantee of anything, because your base is now in-sourcing the H-1B visas in spades.

Please don't insult me with the b.s., I played by the rules, I played the game for over forty years, while I watch this nation being raped and pillage from the inside.
And now most think because they ride a Harley there a true blooded American.

About as American as Walmart.