Twin Cam Motors Twin Cam 1998 thru 2017

TC88: working on the Cam Chest for the first time

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  #21  
Old 07-27-2024, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Rounders
I ran my oil pump for 90k. I replaced with a fueling, non race model. Dennis Kirk does have some cheap tawain stuff, as you have seen, and it s probably fine. But I like name brand for some stuff. I am still running the stock cam plate.

Get the tools for inner and outer cam bearings.

If the cam plate is bad, I'd probably go upgrade retro fit hydraulic tensioners. If good might consider the cyro tensioner pads. I went gear on mine, none of these were available then. 2004 does not have timken bearing. Timkens were not always in spec for run out either.

I bought tools for both inner and outer cam bearing removal/installation and have put in new bearings. I also installed a new race/thrust washer/o-ring on one of the cam shafts. I've been using parts supplied to me by the Bike's owner, who did state that once he has the money saved up he is going to do a conversion upgrade and get rid of the springloaded chain tensioners.
The bike is a 2002 Twin Cam 88, and has had 40K miles on it before the Inner Cam Chain tensioner disintegrated.
 
  #22  
Old 07-27-2024, 09:12 AM
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That is the last year of the timken bearing. Could check runout, and suggest gear too. Could reuse cam plate then, but need new cams. I am not sure, but if you do hydro you might need new cams too. I am not sure. But if not done, cams can be a nice upgrade, when already open.

Lifters of course too.
 
  #23  
Old 07-27-2024, 09:26 AM
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All good advice here. Not sure if its been mentioned, but make 100% sure there is no oil in any holes before re-install bolts. Hydraulic pressure can crack the engine case. I went back with original setup on mine, using the good inner cam bearings and Cyco shoes. I also did top end breathers and Rockouts. The cam service kit from the dealer has all kinds of small parts that you will need
 
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2024, 09:32 AM
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There has been concern of over torqueing cam chest bolts and cover. Don't go heavy. I looked at specs for after market, and they were same as manual, I beleive. I thought some claimed it went down. Atleast it was same as my 2007, I didn't compare to my 2001. As said make sure oil is out , so doesn't get hot and expand.
 
  #25  
Old 07-27-2024, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by djl
Max, agree. However, if the OP is considering pulling the pan, a Blackstone report will show if there is metal, etc. is traveling in the oil, or not.
An oil sample will not tell you if there are shavings in the pan, waiting to find a place to cause damage.

Sure, the filter should catch those shavings, but they will go through the pump first.

I`m a bit **** when it comes to parts disintegrating in an engine or gearbox, I think the only way to give the engine/gearbox a clean bill of health is to disassemble and inspect, especially if it is someone else`s machine.

Rebuilding once sucks but rebuilding twice really sucks.

When I changed the inner cam bearing on my `19 EG, I broke the old bearing during removal, I split the cases to inspect for debris.

I am in the middle of a transmission teardown on my `89 Softail transmission that ate a dipstick, the gearset will be pulled and disassembled.

It is just nuts and bolts.
 

Last edited by Dan89FLSTC; 07-27-2024 at 10:51 AM.
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  #26  
Old 07-27-2024, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan89FLSTC
An oil sample will not tell you if there are shavings in the pan, waiting to find a place to cause damage. Sure, the filter should catch those shavings, but they will go through the pump first.

I`m a bit **** when it comes to parts disintegrating in an engine or gearbox, I think the only way to give the engine/gearbox a clean bill of health is to disassemble and inspect, especially if it is someone else`s machine.

Rebuilding once sucks but rebuilding twice really sucks.
If there are metal shavings in the pan, there is very likely metal traveling in the oil, particlularly if they have been eaten by the pump. In a situation like that, no need for an oil test to know that metal is traveling in the oil. However, among other things, Blackstone tests for 20 metals, in parts per million, measured against their standardof "average wear" for the particular type motor. So, in situations similar to the OPs where making a decision to R/R the pan, an oil sample test likely answer the question. If say iron levels are high enough to indicate abnormal engine wear, R/R of the pan might be in order.

My own situation was after two top end rebuilds of an Axtell Mountaiin Motor (all bore 107) kit where the cylinders would not hold a true bore that resulted in heavy cyinder scoring and piston scuffing, rebore, fit new pistons, at my expense and facing a third rebuild, Axtell was telling me that I needed to R/R the pan, etc., etc. before another rebuild. Axtell blamed the issue on dirty build; too much timing; improper heat cycling but was no help at all in solving the problem. Blackstone analyzed the oil and all the metals Blackstone measured, including aluminum and iron were within their standard. So, I passed on the R/R of the pan, went my own way on the rebuild with MTC cylinders and CP pistons and ran the motor another 25K miles with no issues before I sold the bike.

So, I am not going to argue the benefits or lack there of a Blackstone oil analysis with you or Max but still believe, if a sample could be collected, such a test would benefit the OP and the owner.
 
  #27  
Old 07-27-2024, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by djl
If there are metal shavings in the pan, there is very likely metal traveling in the oil, particlularly if they have been eaten by the pump. In a situation like that, no need for an oil test to know that metal is traveling in the oil. However, among other things, Blackstone tests for 20 metals, in parts per million, measured against their standardof "average wear" for the particular type motor. So, in situations similar to the OPs where making a decision to R/R the pan, an oil sample test likely answer the question. If say iron levels are high enough to indicate abnormal engine wear, R/R of the pan might be in order.

My own situation was after two top end rebuilds of an Axtell Mountaiin Motor (all bore 107) kit where the cylinders would not hold a true bore that resulted in heavy cyinder scoring and piston scuffing, rebore, fit new pistons, at my expense and facing a third rebuild, Axtell was telling me that I needed to R/R the pan, etc., etc. before another rebuild. Axtell blamed the issue on dirty build; too much timing; improper heat cycling but was no help at all in solving the problem. Blackstone analyzed the oil and all the metals Blackstone measured, including aluminum and iron were within their standard. So, I passed on the R/R of the pan, went my own way on the rebuild with MTC cylinders and CP pistons and ran the motor another 25K miles with no issues before I sold the bike.

So, I am not going to argue the benefits or lack there of a Blackstone oil analysis with you or Max but still believe, if a sample could be collected, such a test would benefit the OP and the owner.
It might benefit the OP if there's a failure later. The owner probably doesn't know any better and will fell like the guy did a thorough job when he sees the report.

I work with people that will use our oil lab to avoid work. There's only one way to make sure the pan is clean.
 
  #28  
Old 07-29-2024, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by djl
If there are metal shavings in the pan, there is very likely metal traveling in the oil,
On aircraft reciprocating engines, it is a routine to cut open the oil filter to check for chips and debris at every oil change, even for engines that are on an oil analysis program.

Just because an engine has a good oil sample does not mean there are no chips or debris in the system.

And not all harmful debris is metal.
 

Last edited by Dan89FLSTC; 07-29-2024 at 11:10 AM.
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