Balancer is toast
#41
Forget S&S; IIRC, it has been posted that S&S does not offer a crate motor for the "B" motor. 37K is stll early for a balancer failure but it is certainly possible
If you plan to keep the bike, which I would do as well, if budget allows and you don't take advantage of the opportunity to build in some additional performance, you will regret it. The labor involved to correct the damage is going to cover labor for other modifcations.
Please keep us posted on how you go forward and progress. Good luck with the project.
If you plan to keep the bike, which I would do as well, if budget allows and you don't take advantage of the opportunity to build in some additional performance, you will regret it. The labor involved to correct the damage is going to cover labor for other modifcations.
Please keep us posted on how you go forward and progress. Good luck with the project.
The following users liked this post:
PaperBag (05-04-2023)
#43
Cobra1 suggested a second opinion back in his post #18 which is actually a good idea and one I should have suggested. All responses after PaperBag's OP, includng mine, have been based on the assumption that the balancer assembly is damaged. It might be but considering that PaperBag has not reported noticeable vibration which is a symptom of balancer failure and the low failure rate, at low mileage, of the TC balancer system, a second opinion from a qualified tech would be a good idea.
Let's remember, PaperBag took the bike in for a carb tune. If the balancer assembly, or some part of it, was really damaged, wouldn't you think the issue would present with noticeable symptoms? Maybe PaperBag should challenge the tech to put his money where his mouth is. Pull the motor, split the cases and if no damage is found, the shop eats the labor cost for the R/R. I am pretty sure the tech would not accept the challenge but it would be interesting to see how he responded.
So maybe this thread goes in a different direction now.
Let's remember, PaperBag took the bike in for a carb tune. If the balancer assembly, or some part of it, was really damaged, wouldn't you think the issue would present with noticeable symptoms? Maybe PaperBag should challenge the tech to put his money where his mouth is. Pull the motor, split the cases and if no damage is found, the shop eats the labor cost for the R/R. I am pretty sure the tech would not accept the challenge but it would be interesting to see how he responded.
So maybe this thread goes in a different direction now.
Forget S&S; IIRC, it has been posted that S&S does not offer a crate motor for the "B" motor. 37K is stll early for a balancer failure but it is certainly possible
If you plan to keep the bike, which I would do as well, if budget allows and you don't take advantage of the opportunity to build in some additional performance, you will regret it. The labor involved to correct the damage is going to cover labor for other modifcations.
Please keep us posted on how you go forward and progress. Good luck with the project.
If you plan to keep the bike, which I would do as well, if budget allows and you don't take advantage of the opportunity to build in some additional performance, you will regret it. The labor involved to correct the damage is going to cover labor for other modifcations.
Please keep us posted on how you go forward and progress. Good luck with the project.
Those are some pretty long chains and guide shoes for the ballancers and maybe there is just some premature wear on those causing noise
I believe its worth opening up to take a look and then decide if you want to change anything going back together
If it's too bad pay them their time for the tear down and search for a used engine
#44
On my TC the counterbalancers seem to smooth out the most around 2,900rpm. OP do you notice a smooth spot? That would help indicate if they are working. I highly doubt the counterbalancers are worn out with that mileage. If they are in fact malfunctioning I would recommend Darkhorse rebuild the bottom end.
#45
I miss these threads. lol.
Just a thought but I wouldn't just tear this motor down or condemn the balancers just yet without a second opinion. Granted mine is a newer bike and I'm not sure how much this balance assembly differs from older models. I suspect not much tho.
I replaced my whole balance assembly when I did the S&S crank. At 30,000 miles it was in near new condition yet. You just don't hear of this bring a problem. Not that it can't be.
I'm with djl. I'd call the tech out on this.
Just a thought but I wouldn't just tear this motor down or condemn the balancers just yet without a second opinion. Granted mine is a newer bike and I'm not sure how much this balance assembly differs from older models. I suspect not much tho.
I replaced my whole balance assembly when I did the S&S crank. At 30,000 miles it was in near new condition yet. You just don't hear of this bring a problem. Not that it can't be.
I'm with djl. I'd call the tech out on this.
Last edited by 60Gunner; 05-12-2023 at 07:39 PM.
#46
Well, well, well.
I went for a second opinion, and I'm glad I did! (Props esp to djl and Rounders.)
There are 2 NEW indie shops near me. The first I went to works on older HDs (he had a nasty rat 45 in-house, very cool). He took a listen and recommended I go to the other one, who he knew had good experience on TCs, so off I went.
Yes indeed. The tech took a listen and deduced the comp nut had backed out a bit, so I left it for him to check.
I picked it up a couple hours ago, and indeed, the nut had backed out and was quite out of spec. He had dropped the primary cover, properly adjusted the nut by SEVERAL turns!, took out the clutch basket to check that and made it good, red loctited the appropriate fasteners and also made sure the primary chain adjuster was correctly positioned. He ALSO checked and adjusted the carb properly - it was quite out - AND lubed and adjusted the throttle cables.
And here's where we come full circle. In another thread, I carried on about the loud mufflers, discovering they were stock but had been bored out/baffles removed. This guy found that the PO had tweaked the carb to flow more, and thus needed a less-restrictive exhaust. Makes sense, right?
Anyway, he put it all back together, and it runs well. We had a chuckle about the muffler dance, and left it that I could go with a different/less restrictive exhaust in the future if I felt I needed more GO, which I really don't. At least at this point.
It rides and runs smoother, is more responsive to throttle input, and I'm a happy camper.
The dealer I had been working with is now suspect, for sure. I may have a chat with them, or not, and simply not go there for work. I'm relieved to not have to shell out major $$ for work that apparently wasn't needed, and relieved that the scoot will be ready to ride to Laconia once again.
This forum is great, and thanks once again to all who contributed to this thread.
Ride safe!
I went for a second opinion, and I'm glad I did! (Props esp to djl and Rounders.)
There are 2 NEW indie shops near me. The first I went to works on older HDs (he had a nasty rat 45 in-house, very cool). He took a listen and recommended I go to the other one, who he knew had good experience on TCs, so off I went.
Yes indeed. The tech took a listen and deduced the comp nut had backed out a bit, so I left it for him to check.
I picked it up a couple hours ago, and indeed, the nut had backed out and was quite out of spec. He had dropped the primary cover, properly adjusted the nut by SEVERAL turns!, took out the clutch basket to check that and made it good, red loctited the appropriate fasteners and also made sure the primary chain adjuster was correctly positioned. He ALSO checked and adjusted the carb properly - it was quite out - AND lubed and adjusted the throttle cables.
And here's where we come full circle. In another thread, I carried on about the loud mufflers, discovering they were stock but had been bored out/baffles removed. This guy found that the PO had tweaked the carb to flow more, and thus needed a less-restrictive exhaust. Makes sense, right?
Anyway, he put it all back together, and it runs well. We had a chuckle about the muffler dance, and left it that I could go with a different/less restrictive exhaust in the future if I felt I needed more GO, which I really don't. At least at this point.
It rides and runs smoother, is more responsive to throttle input, and I'm a happy camper.
The dealer I had been working with is now suspect, for sure. I may have a chat with them, or not, and simply not go there for work. I'm relieved to not have to shell out major $$ for work that apparently wasn't needed, and relieved that the scoot will be ready to ride to Laconia once again.
This forum is great, and thanks once again to all who contributed to this thread.
Ride safe!
The following 7 users liked this post by PaperBag:
djl (06-01-2023),
Fat11Lo (06-02-2023),
Garage Queen Rescue (06-09-2023),
jeb42 (06-09-2023),
Rusty Springs (06-09-2023),
and 2 others liked this post.
#47
Actually, Cobra1 was the first to suggest a second opinion. I simply followed suit because it should have been the first thing any of us suggested but we all go wrapped up in what ifs.
Always glad to hear a happy ending and glad Paper Bag posted final results. I have to agree that this forum is a great resource for those that take the time to tune in and listen..
Always glad to hear a happy ending and glad Paper Bag posted final results. I have to agree that this forum is a great resource for those that take the time to tune in and listen..
Last edited by djl; 06-01-2023 at 08:41 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Cobra1 (06-09-2023)
#50