Is it Absolutely necessary to run Synthetic..
#51
This is exactly where you DO want to run a good race oil and VR1 Conventional has proven itself over and over as one of the best in these air-cooled v-twins. I run my build harder than most and higher rpms than most.
now if you just run open hiway and putting along for 10,000 miles OCIs, you might want an oil with a more stout detergent package. But there's a reason real race oil, meant to be dumped after 500 miles doesn't have one or much of one. It interferes with the protection additives and causes foaming at high rpms.
VR1 is a race oil designed for street engines and run for longer intervals than say valvoline's NSL(not for street legal engines) race oil because it does have a detergent package.
A lot of people mistake VR1 for this true race oil designed to be dumped after every race.
Last edited by 60Gunner; 11-08-2022 at 11:09 PM.
#52
Tradiitonal oil begins to break down at 275deg, recomended to maintain a supply between 230 and 260 with a change at 3k miles. Synthetic begins to break down around 500deg (debatable) with a change starting at 5k.
Our newer bikes can run as high at 260ish @ 80deg.
Is being within 9% of breakdown, with ambient sometimes exceeding 80deg worth it to you? Only you can answer that.
In my opinion no. I'm also one that changes all 3 holes every 5k where factory recomendation runs 5k, 10k and 15k for my SGS.
In my Shovel, I run nothing but VR1 50w in cooler months and VR1 60W in hotter months, she's a bar hopper.
New technologies, tighter tolerences, higher horsepower, it makes huge difference IMHO.
YMMV
Our newer bikes can run as high at 260ish @ 80deg.
Is being within 9% of breakdown, with ambient sometimes exceeding 80deg worth it to you? Only you can answer that.
In my opinion no. I'm also one that changes all 3 holes every 5k where factory recomendation runs 5k, 10k and 15k for my SGS.
In my Shovel, I run nothing but VR1 50w in cooler months and VR1 60W in hotter months, she's a bar hopper.
New technologies, tighter tolerences, higher horsepower, it makes huge difference IMHO.
YMMV
The following 4 users liked this post by chopper_man:
rol427 (11-11-2022),
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#53
Tradiitonal oil begins to break down at 275deg, recomended to maintain a supply between 230 and 260 with a change at 3k miles. Synthetic begins to break down around 500deg (debatable) with a change starting at 5k.
Our newer bikes can run as high at 260ish @ 80deg.
Is being within 9% of breakdown, with ambient sometimes exceeding 80deg worth it to you? Only you can answer that.
In my opinion no. I'm also one that changes all 3 holes every 5k where factory recomendation runs 5k, 10k and 15k for my SGS.
In my Shovel, I run nothing but VR1 50w in cooler months and VR1 60W in hotter months, she's a bar hopper.
New technologies, tighter tolerences, higher horsepower, it makes huge difference IMHO.
YMMV
Our newer bikes can run as high at 260ish @ 80deg.
Is being within 9% of breakdown, with ambient sometimes exceeding 80deg worth it to you? Only you can answer that.
In my opinion no. I'm also one that changes all 3 holes every 5k where factory recomendation runs 5k, 10k and 15k for my SGS.
In my Shovel, I run nothing but VR1 50w in cooler months and VR1 60W in hotter months, she's a bar hopper.
New technologies, tighter tolerences, higher horsepower, it makes huge difference IMHO.
YMMV
Most can't handle 300°F.
#54
If I had a shovel head or even an evo I would run conventional oil. The twin cam I will stick with Mobil full synthetic. I got over 100.000 miles on a 96 cubic inch. After breaking the cases on a 2015 Triumph Rocket I can see why they recommend synthetic only. After breaking cases on the Harley I can see the reason for this discussion. Do not believe you have to run synthetic in the twin cam. My choice is synthetic oil.
#55
At what temperature does synthetic oil break down?
Superior temperature resistance. Synthetics can safely handle higher operating temperatures without oxidizing (burning) or breaking down. The upper limit for most mineral-based oils is about 250 to 300 degrees F. Synthetics can take up to 450 degrees F. or higher (some as much as 700 degrees F).https://sage-answers.com/does-synthe...to-break-down/
The following 2 users liked this post by chopper_man:
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#56
Vr1 vs m1 v-twin vs syn 3
These were run at 300°. M1 v-twin synthetic has been known to shear under 2000 miles at temps under 300°.
When it burns and when it shears/breaks down are two totally different things too.
These were run at 300°. M1 v-twin synthetic has been known to shear under 2000 miles at temps under 300°.
When it burns and when it shears/breaks down are two totally different things too.
Last edited by 60Gunner; 11-09-2022 at 07:09 PM.
#57
https://www.amsoil.com/p/20w-50-synt...cycle-oil-mcv/
Not to stir the hornet's nest and some of these anecdotal stories are great but above is a link to an example of some scientific testing conducted to simulate 1,000 miles of stop-and-go riding where a pair of Milwaukee 8 V-Twin cylinders surpassed 421* and oil temps reached 300*. I realize this scientific testing was done by AMSOIL and if you choose to believe it, that's a lot of miles at high temps with the result being an lubricant that maintained its SAE viscosity and for me, that's plenty of info.
Combined with my own Blackstone Laboratories TC 103 AMSOIL oil reports, I have no need or desire to run anything but AMSOIL 20@-50 Synthetic V-Twin motor oil. Do I live in AMSOIL land (Northern Wisconsin)? Yes. Do I work for AMSOIL? No. Do I run their lubricants in all my vehicles including my commercial diesel trucks in -30* Fahrenheit winter temps? Do I have a friend in Arizona with a blown up Arlen Ness motor that overheated while using conventional oil? Yes. But those are both other stories for different places and times but let's just say that my vehicles run AMSOIL exclusively between all temperatures ranging from -40* F to > 100* F and have been doing so for decades
Not to stir the hornet's nest and some of these anecdotal stories are great but above is a link to an example of some scientific testing conducted to simulate 1,000 miles of stop-and-go riding where a pair of Milwaukee 8 V-Twin cylinders surpassed 421* and oil temps reached 300*. I realize this scientific testing was done by AMSOIL and if you choose to believe it, that's a lot of miles at high temps with the result being an lubricant that maintained its SAE viscosity and for me, that's plenty of info.
Combined with my own Blackstone Laboratories TC 103 AMSOIL oil reports, I have no need or desire to run anything but AMSOIL 20@-50 Synthetic V-Twin motor oil. Do I live in AMSOIL land (Northern Wisconsin)? Yes. Do I work for AMSOIL? No. Do I run their lubricants in all my vehicles including my commercial diesel trucks in -30* Fahrenheit winter temps? Do I have a friend in Arizona with a blown up Arlen Ness motor that overheated while using conventional oil? Yes. But those are both other stories for different places and times but let's just say that my vehicles run AMSOIL exclusively between all temperatures ranging from -40* F to > 100* F and have been doing so for decades
#58
#59