TC88B to 96", bottom end?
#21
07-17-2022, 06:36 PM
@ironlast Just a couple of comments on your plan.
JMHO but splitting the cases for bearings and not having the OEM crank trued, balanced and plugged is a mistake. It would be a shame to build this new motor only to have the crank twist 5K miles down the road..
Have your heads worked so you can have them setup to play well with the total package. You want to build the motor around tha cams, not around a set of "off the shelf" heads.
Baker DD6 in lieu of the OD6 which have had issues.
HPI 55/58 throttle body
Stroke the motor; don't stop at 98" and here is why.
Last year I upgraded the 95" motor in my '05 Deuce to 98" with a target of 120/120 square numbers. Basically a top end rebuild with better heads, Kury 57mm throttle boddy, longer gear drive cams and higher compression. Figured my crank was OK and did not plan to go into the bottom end. However, on tear down, we found crank runout had grown from .0025" when I built the 95" several years ago to .0045". So knowing this new builld be stronger than 104TQ/96HP I had to choose between stroking or having my crank trued, balanced and plugged. Since my initial goal was to see if I could hit 120/120 with 98", I decided to have my crank addressed and build to 98". Long story short, after testing several pipes, cams and throttle bodies; 115/115 was the best we could do. Bike runs great, no issues with near 12:1 static, 10.0 corrected and 213psi CCP. but I can tell you from this experience that if you don't stroke the motor and build at least to 107", you will regret it. With a 4" cylinder/piston kit and the longer stroke, you can hit 110" and the additional cost once committed to splitting the cases for any reason, is marginal. No need to be concerned about reliability if compression is kept at a reasonable leve, say 9.3-9.6 corrected and CCP between 190-195psi; very manageable, fuel friendly and not a tuning challenge. Think about it; the 98" runs well, easily 100+/100+ on the dyno and after about 1000 miles and the "new" wears off, you are going to be wonder how much better it would have been had you spent just a bir more and build a bigger motor? I promise you that will happen.
When I built an all bore (4.125" x 4.00") motor for my '02 FLHT, I also had the OEM crank rebuild by Darkhorse after thinking about stroking and building a 117" motor. The 107" ran well (124TQ/110HP) but I always regretted not building the 117" motor.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. You are about to go down the rabbit hole so do the homework, listen to those that have "been there, done that" to avoid making decisions that you can't take back; do overs are very expensive.
JMHO but splitting the cases for bearings and not having the OEM crank trued, balanced and plugged is a mistake. It would be a shame to build this new motor only to have the crank twist 5K miles down the road..
Have your heads worked so you can have them setup to play well with the total package. You want to build the motor around tha cams, not around a set of "off the shelf" heads.
Baker DD6 in lieu of the OD6 which have had issues.
HPI 55/58 throttle body
Stroke the motor; don't stop at 98" and here is why.
Last year I upgraded the 95" motor in my '05 Deuce to 98" with a target of 120/120 square numbers. Basically a top end rebuild with better heads, Kury 57mm throttle boddy, longer gear drive cams and higher compression. Figured my crank was OK and did not plan to go into the bottom end. However, on tear down, we found crank runout had grown from .0025" when I built the 95" several years ago to .0045". So knowing this new builld be stronger than 104TQ/96HP I had to choose between stroking or having my crank trued, balanced and plugged. Since my initial goal was to see if I could hit 120/120 with 98", I decided to have my crank addressed and build to 98". Long story short, after testing several pipes, cams and throttle bodies; 115/115 was the best we could do. Bike runs great, no issues with near 12:1 static, 10.0 corrected and 213psi CCP. but I can tell you from this experience that if you don't stroke the motor and build at least to 107", you will regret it. With a 4" cylinder/piston kit and the longer stroke, you can hit 110" and the additional cost once committed to splitting the cases for any reason, is marginal. No need to be concerned about reliability if compression is kept at a reasonable leve, say 9.3-9.6 corrected and CCP between 190-195psi; very manageable, fuel friendly and not a tuning challenge. Think about it; the 98" runs well, easily 100+/100+ on the dyno and after about 1000 miles and the "new" wears off, you are going to be wonder how much better it would have been had you spent just a bir more and build a bigger motor? I promise you that will happen.
When I built an all bore (4.125" x 4.00") motor for my '02 FLHT, I also had the OEM crank rebuild by Darkhorse after thinking about stroking and building a 117" motor. The 107" ran well (124TQ/110HP) but I always regretted not building the 117" motor.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. You are about to go down the rabbit hole so do the homework, listen to those that have "been there, done that" to avoid making decisions that you can't take back; do overs are very expensive.
Can you expand a bit about the Baker OD6 Builder kit? I'm looking to maintain an OEM exterior appearance.
#22
07-17-2022, 06:46 PM
As for exterior appearnce, there is not change but the Baker Drivetrain logo and OD6 stamped into the trap door.
#23
07-17-2022, 10:21 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
I was not aware that Baker had a TQ/HP limit for the DD6 until I read tdrglide's post.ws
I rebuilt my tranny this winter, bearings seals, springs. Kept same gears.
I think a lot of it is how you ride. Guys that build engiones, build them to abuse quite often.
I considered S&S crank when rebuilding 01, even though it is a good year. I didn't. I kept it at 95". My 07, I may do crank. I really don't trust those years once you start adding power.
Last edited by Rounders; 07-17-2022 at 10:22 PM.
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sonny4 (07-18-2022)
#24
07-17-2022, 10:28 PM
Road Master
#25
07-17-2022, 10:55 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
I split to just reseal, which is not hard. Little nerve racking applying sealand. But ended up taking apart and inspect crank, because I had a friend help. I had 87k on mine, and wanted to stop all leaks. Plus I never did it before.
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shaggieshapiro (07-17-2022)
#26
07-17-2022, 11:13 PM
Not much to explain as it is a direct replacement for the OEM five speed. You can read details about features, etc. at the Baker Drivetrain website. It is a pretty straight forward install but more work on a softail than on a touring model or Dyna. Outer/innner primary have to come off as well as the oil tank; the R/R of the oil tank is messy and a PITA. So, it's important that the install go correctly; a do over won't be any fun.
As for exterior appearnce, there is not change but the Baker Drivetrain logo and OD6 stamped into the trap door.
As for exterior appearnce, there is not change but the Baker Drivetrain logo and OD6 stamped into the trap door.
Can you elaborate please? Thanks!
#27
07-18-2022, 04:05 AM
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#28
07-18-2022, 09:07 AM
Road Captain
"JMHO but splitting the cases for bearings and not having the OEM crank trued, balanced and plugged is a mistake. It would be a shame to build this new motor only to have the crank twist 5K miles down the road" Totaly agree. If your willing to drop that 7 or 8K you can basically do the build i have done. About 10.1:1 compression, gear drive and hardly anyone will argue John and the boys at Darkhorse will build you as bullet proof bottom end as is possible. Toss in a reputable head port/ cylinder bore and your looking at a nice reliable 107 incher making 110 to 125 horses and torque depending on head job and cam. Like I said earlier, once you split the cases...rabbit hole.
#29
07-18-2022, 10:36 AM
"JMHO but splitting the cases for bearings and not having the OEM crank trued, balanced and plugged is a mistake. It would be a shame to build this new motor only to have the crank twist 5K miles down the road" Totaly agree. If your willing to drop that 7 or 8K you can basically do the build i have done. About 10.1:1 compression, gear drive and hardly anyone will argue John and the boys at Darkhorse will build you as bullet proof bottom end as is possible. Toss in a reputable head port/ cylinder bore and your looking at a nice reliable 107 incher making 110 to 125 horses and torque depending on head job and cam. Like I said earlier, once you split the cases...rabbit hole.
I’m still curious what issues the OD6 has vs the entire Baker tranny.
I’ve had this bike for 19 years and it’s bone stock.
I’m not selling unless I’m living under a bridge so I’m not opposed to spending on top to bottom quality, transmission and suspension upgrades will be done as well.
I’ve seen what quality suspension can do, and the Softail dream can get a bit squirrely with stick power.
#30
07-18-2022, 11:11 AM
When I built my 98" motor with a target of 120/120 numbers, I had already converted to the DD6; I did not see the Baker video until tdrglide posted information indicating that there might be a TQ or HP limit for the DD6. Am I freaking out becuase my 98" motor makes 115HP; no.
. If I had seen the video before building the 98" would I have converted to the OD6; probably.
Also, as I said in my previous, if you build a 117" motor, the OD6 would be the right choice for a six speed coversion.
Although I still don't understand how there could be that much difference in the construction of the DD6 that would make it unsuitable for higher torque applications.
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ironlast (07-18-2022)