Engine oil going to crankcase during winter
#21
05-04-2022, 03:11 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
The only time the oil could get that high in the drawing is if the flywheels were not spinning. The rest of the time its being tossed around and it runs down into the pickup Good pic tho. It shows that draining the oil passage to check for sumping on a B motor will only tell if the motor is sumping badly.
You say 20 oz but how was it measured?
The A motor pulls oil directly off the flywheel. Might get half a quart. IIRC I get slightly less about 12 oz in a SnS case but they have a pretty big pickup area and a drain plug directly in the crankcase. I'll drain my DX on the next oil change. It has a drain plug in the bottom of the case.. Still the attempt is to minimize oil in the crankcase (dry sump).
Radial motors have a pickup that catches the oil, how much of it is in there?
For sure it ain't a dry motor. Gotta have some oil in there..
You say 20 oz but how was it measured?
The A motor pulls oil directly off the flywheel. Might get half a quart. IIRC I get slightly less about 12 oz in a SnS case but they have a pretty big pickup area and a drain plug directly in the crankcase. I'll drain my DX on the next oil change. It has a drain plug in the bottom of the case.. Still the attempt is to minimize oil in the crankcase (dry sump).
Radial motors have a pickup that catches the oil, how much of it is in there?
For sure it ain't a dry motor. Gotta have some oil in there..
But I agree, when spinning, its simply a dishwasher in there.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; 05-04-2022 at 03:13 PM.
#22
05-06-2022, 06:15 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Interesting discussion, at least the OP got his answer early on, regardless of what all this is called....
IMHO.... There is a big difference between an engine sumping while it is running (like the M8s), and oil from a tank mounted above the engine sump, draining past the oil pump into the sump until the engine is started, like in the twin cam B engines... I know which one I'll take...
Plus, I always thought a dry sump engine, was any engine that stores the oil in a cavity other than the one shared with the engine crank.... the amounts of oil left in the "sump" are going to vary based on design, volumes, etc... I never heard a dry sump engine was determined by the amount of oil in the sump....
But then again, I'm not an engineer nor an internal combustion engine expert....
IMHO.... There is a big difference between an engine sumping while it is running (like the M8s), and oil from a tank mounted above the engine sump, draining past the oil pump into the sump until the engine is started, like in the twin cam B engines... I know which one I'll take...
Plus, I always thought a dry sump engine, was any engine that stores the oil in a cavity other than the one shared with the engine crank.... the amounts of oil left in the "sump" are going to vary based on design, volumes, etc... I never heard a dry sump engine was determined by the amount of oil in the sump....
But then again, I'm not an engineer nor an internal combustion engine expert....
#23
05-06-2022, 07:11 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Interesting discussion, at least the OP got his answer early on, regardless of what all this is called....
IMHO.... There is a big difference between an engine sumping while it is running (like the M8s), and oil from a tank mounted above the engine sump, draining past the oil pump into the sump until the engine is started, like in the twin cam B engines... I know which one I'll take...
Plus, I always thought a dry sump engine, was any engine that stores the oil in a cavity other than the one shared with the engine crank.... the amounts of oil left in the "sump" are going to vary based on design, volumes, etc... I never heard a dry sump engine was determined by the amount of oil in the sump....
But then again, I'm not an engineer nor an internal combustion engine expert....
IMHO.... There is a big difference between an engine sumping while it is running (like the M8s), and oil from a tank mounted above the engine sump, draining past the oil pump into the sump until the engine is started, like in the twin cam B engines... I know which one I'll take...
Plus, I always thought a dry sump engine, was any engine that stores the oil in a cavity other than the one shared with the engine crank.... the amounts of oil left in the "sump" are going to vary based on design, volumes, etc... I never heard a dry sump engine was determined by the amount of oil in the sump....
But then again, I'm not an engineer nor an internal combustion engine expert....
From what I Google search, a dry sump gas motor is what you described. One that stores it's oil supply in a tank other the a sump below the motor. One with two oil pumps. I would personally consider a full dry sump motor to be 100% pressure lubricated. A TCb is not 100% that.
However, my term I referred to above for the TCb is just my term. Nothing more.
It has a lip section to retain oil for splash lube for the inner cam bearings.
It's in the service manual as such.
Did I somehow call your baby ugly or something.
If so, I apologize. Get over it.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; 05-06-2022 at 08:25 PM.
#24
05-06-2022, 07:38 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#25
05-07-2022, 07:02 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
If you can't see thru or understand what this means in my previous post whatever you want.
And I quote.
However, my term I referred to above for the TCb is just my term. Nothing more.
Please put me on your ignore list.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; 05-07-2022 at 07:05 AM.
#26
05-07-2022, 07:34 AM
#28
05-07-2022, 09:13 AM
Bumping the starter a few times won't do it. Start and let it idle until you can see good oil flow back into the tank. There won't be any flow at first, then it will start and be intermittent until it becomes constant.
#29
05-07-2022, 11:17 AM
A couple minutes idling and all is well. Done it a half a dozen times now. The dual port scavenge of this pump works real well.
If max or his buddy ed like the stock pump and possibly sump at high rpm, that's their perogative. I've seen how this pump scavenges and I wouldn't switch back just for the wavy washer and MAYBE not sump when it sits for extended periods. That's just a minor annoyance.
If max or his buddy ed like the stock pump and possibly sump at high rpm, that's their perogative. I've seen how this pump scavenges and I wouldn't switch back just for the wavy washer and MAYBE not sump when it sits for extended periods. That's just a minor annoyance.
#30
05-07-2022, 12:37 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
A couple minutes idling and all is well. Done it a half a dozen times now. The dual port scavenge of this pump works real well.
If max or his buddy ed like the stock pump and possibly sump at high rpm, that's their perogative. I've seen how this pump scavenges and I wouldn't switch back just for the wavy washer and MAYBE not sump when it sits for extended periods. That's just a minor annoyance.
If max or his buddy ed like the stock pump and possibly sump at high rpm, that's their perogative. I've seen how this pump scavenges and I wouldn't switch back just for the wavy washer and MAYBE not sump when it sits for extended periods. That's just a minor annoyance.
It's all in whether it's needed or not.. 107? I don't see any signs of sumping in my 07 egc.. My 131 motor needed a dual scavenge gerotor pump as the Feuling couldn't handle the scavenging but it wasn't at high RPM that caused the issue. It was cruising on the freeway at 70 when the temps were above 90F, SnS gen1 cases. SnS 3 rotor corrected the issue.