Twin Cam Motors Twin Cam 1998 thru 2017

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  #51  
Old 03-26-2022 | 07:22 PM
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Aye Carumba! I feel your pain! How many miles on the bike? And only when warm...and you say you can't pinpoint it. Do you want to pull the Rocker Covers and maybe throw some RockerLockers or RockOuts in there before blowing it up? Maybe circling around it while firing a .45 cal pistol at it? Is there anyone else that can put an ear to it? Bad Connecting Rod Bearings will do that, or start seizing the motor when they get hot. But that would be a big knock. And I rarely hear of that. Maybe on a old V8 Chevy! Are you positive the pushrods have been adjusted properly? Can they be hitting the pushrod tubes? You'd be able to feel that with your gloved fingers. Hopefully some experts will chime in soon.
 
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  #52  
Old 03-27-2022 | 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by brakeless
Aye Carumba! I feel your pain! How many miles on the bike? And only when warm...and you say you can't pinpoint it. Do you want to pull the Rocker Covers and maybe throw some RockerLockers or RockOuts in there before blowing it up? Maybe circling around it while firing a .45 cal pistol at it? Is there anyone else that can put an ear to it? Bad Connecting Rod Bearings will do that, or start seizing the motor when they get hot. But that would be a big knock. And I rarely hear of that. Maybe on a old V8 Chevy! Are you positive the pushrods have been adjusted properly? Can they be hitting the pushrod tubes? You'd be able to feel that with your gloved fingers. Hopefully some experts will chime in soon.
Im not gonna lie, there was a bit of a tantrum and some sulking.

But, this is part of the process - make mistakes. learn from them. Get better at it.

To answer your supposition - I was meticulous in following the manual and S&S instructions for adjusting the pushrods. But that doesnt mean I didnt do something wrong or didnt spot a condition that should have alerted me to some other issue. I looked for indications of wear on the pushrods and didnt see anything beyond the normal "polishing" of the ball ends. Most frustrating is it is the exact same noise under the exact same conditions as before.
Experience and all that- if this were my 10th time doing this versus the first time. if this were a solid lifter moto guzzi I would know exactly what the problem is

So after thinking on it and looking through threads and whatnot Ive come up with a couple possibles based on the "last places I put my dirty dick beaters" principle.

1) pinion sprocket. apparently it is possible for the flat side of the pinion sprocket to "rock" if the torque sequence wasnt quite proper. I believe it was done properly and I would *think* this would vary the noises as the engine went up and down the RPMs. also I would think that the noise would be pretty clearly in the cam chest when there is a screwdriver stethoscope applied.
2) the rocker mount plate. I did have the covers off and messed with that. I followed the torque instructions - but that doesnt mean I didnt get something wrong there either. If thats wrong it could explain an awful lot of unpleasant noises and why they seem to be everywhere. and at 50k miles, its not a bad idea to service the breather system up there.

I think I will pursue number two for now. As much as I hate draining and pulling the tank, it seems like the next likely source of the noise.

A question - when it comes to "re doing the pushrod adjustment" - which I will want to do if I take apart the rockers - I dont find anything about pumping up the lifters again beforehand. Isnt that necessary? as in - the proper procedure is to remove the hydraulic tappets and fill them with oil before re-adjusting the pushrods length - or am I over complicating it? seems to me if the bike sits they are going to leak down and then the pushrod adjustment would be incorrect

One diagnostic possible I thought of is to run the bike up to temp when it is making the noise, and then open up the pushrod covers to check for free play in them at TDC.

 
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  #53  
Old 03-27-2022 | 11:25 AM
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Well good luck. I would think the pinion gear wouldn't be the problem since it made that noise before you changed it, right?
I just automatically use a large Veterinarian Syringe and fill my lifters from the side hole even if I have oil in them. I makes me feel better to actually see that fresh oil flow out the top.
Once the pushrods are adjusted and the motor is warm you won't find any movement unless you do have a bad lifter. And those are new correct? You are adjusting from zero lash to just over half the travel of lifter. And once they pump they should be tight. But check them if it makes sense to you. If you find anything loose then there ya go!
 
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  #54  
Old 03-27-2022 | 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by brakeless
Well good luck. I would think the pinion gear wouldn't be the problem since it made that noise before you changed it, right?
I just automatically use a large Veterinarian Syringe and fill my lifters from the side hole even if I have oil in them. I makes me feel better to actually see that fresh oil flow out the top.
Once the pushrods are adjusted and the motor is warm you won't find any movement unless you do have a bad lifter. And those are new correct? You are adjusting from zero lash to just over half the travel of lifter. And once they pump they should be tight. But check them if it makes sense to you. If you find anything loose then there ya go!
No the pinion didnt have issues, nor did it make noise before BUT I did have to remove it to replace the cam gear so I could have a functioning cam sensor.

Here is why I am concerned about the lifters:
I installed new lifters and pushrods.
I set the length of the rods according to S&S directions.
But if something is off in the rockers and plate - wouldnt I need to go back and perform the pushrod procedure again? and if I do, do I need to fill the lifters with oil again? The S&S instructions dont say anything about that being necessary for just a pushrod installation, so perhaps not. I just want to be sure Im not missing a "Well duh *everyone* knows that..." with regard to oiling the lifters. But then again S&S is pretty specific... But on the third hand - if they are already set too long because the rocker plate isnt to spec, then wouldnt that throw the whole works off in adjusting the rods and could mean that they have.... and so on and so on. See how that gets all spun out

So...Im going to assume everything is fubar. And go through it from beginning to end

For each cylinder:
Pull the rocker covers
Undo the pushrod covers
Get it to TDC
Pull out the pushrods and lifters
Remove the rockers and breather assemblies
Inspect the rocker assemblies for wear
Replace all the gaskets and filters
install the rocker and breather assemblies per the manual
Refill the lifters with oil
Install the pushrods per S&S instructions.
Pray





 
  #55  
Old 03-27-2022 | 11:56 AM
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If the push rods were set/adjusted correctly and re-installed in the same "position" a person wouldn't necessarily have to adjust them again, but if I was in your situation, I would adjust again.

No, you don't have to fill your lifters with oil

I would also add "Install Rockouts" to your list


.
 

Last edited by multihdrdr; 03-27-2022 at 12:01 PM.
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  #56  
Old 03-27-2022 | 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by multihdrdr
If the push rods were set/adjusted correctly and re-installed in the same "position" a person wouldn't necessarily have to adjust them again, but if I was in your situation, I would adjust again.

No, you don't have to fill your lifters with oil

I would also add "Install Rockouts" to your list


.
Seems cheap enough so I will. and really, the video they have of that rocker shaft banging around could definitely be the source. It would also explain why it runs fine, even if it is noisy as hell

 
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  #57  
Old 03-27-2022 | 01:11 PM
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+1 on what multihdrdr said. Beat me to it. So, it sounds like you believe there's something going on in the Rocker Boxes? Yet can't hear it exactly there, correct? Let us know what you find. Try not to pull all your hair out.
 
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  #58  
Old 03-27-2022 | 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by brakeless
+1 on what multihdrdr said. Beat me to it. So, it sounds like you believe there's something going on in the Rocker Boxes? Yet can't hear it exactly there, correct? Let us know what you find. Try not to pull all your hair out.
Other than periodic sulking, Im doing alright. I expected weird and wonderful things to happen with a 21 year old bike of unknown providence and no real familiarity with the design. Over-spending on parts during the learning curve is part of the game.

Yes I cant definitively locate the source of the noise. Either because my ear isnt tuned for it or because the bits are so connected, particularly in the rocker-pushrods-lifters areas. So Im relying on "What was the last part I opened that I havent re-visited?" thats the rocker assembly. And well, new gaskets and such wont hurt.
 

Last edited by Samsquamch; 03-27-2022 at 01:54 PM.
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  #59  
Old 03-27-2022 | 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Samsquamch
Other than periodic sulking, Im doing alright. I expected weird and wonderful things to happen with a 21 year old bike of unknown providence and no real familiarity with the design. Over-spending on parts during the learning curve is part of the game.

Yes I cant definitively locate the source of the noise. Either because my ear isnt tuned for it or because the bits are so connected, particularly in the rocker-pushrods-lifters areas. So Im relying on "What was the last part I opened that I havent re-visited?" thats the rocker assembly. And well, new gaskets and such wont hurt.
Well plus going in there you have the opportunity to upgrade the breathers and install the rocker lockers. I'd also consider drilling the drain hole slightly larger. There's lots of threads and videos on that too. I'll leave the investigation up to you. Lots say it improves drain out. Since you have a new oil pump that increases pressure or output you may want to consider it.
 
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  #60  
Old 03-27-2022 | 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by brakeless
Well plus going in there you have the opportunity to upgrade the breathers and install the rocker lockers. I'd also consider drilling the drain hole slightly larger. There's lots of threads and videos on that too. I'll leave the investigation up to you. Lots say it improves drain out. Since you have a new oil pump that increases pressure or output you may want to consider it.
I think Im going to stick to "Make it run without the bad noises" for now and keep the "while you are in there" yak shaving to a minimum

(I should not look at want ads while researching... '76 FXE....No, I dont need to borrow trouble right now...)
 
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