You are absolutely correct! The head pipes are probably the single most effective heat reducer but unfortunately there no one single answer to the heat reduction problem. It takes a combination of several things.

Jim

 

I’m amazed that a Harley engineer would make such a recommendation; unless it was meant to be an off the record comment.

I would think that recommending altering an EPA pollution device would be a firing offence at Harley.

Jim

 

I'll bet it was off the record. I know at one point when my dad was going back and forth with customer service on his trike the guy told him to have the dealer contact him for a map which was much better than the supplied Stage 2 map. Unfortunately the service mgr was a pissant and wouldn't do it.

 

M3 is correct. I had met a Tech Service Rep at Lake George and he gave me his phone# if I needed his assistance. I contacted him when I got home and he wanted my service manager to contact him but the service manager wouldn't.

 

msocko3 - Handy lift closed it's doors in August of this year, laying off all employees. Allegedly they have been purchased by a private equity group. There is concern that soon operations will move overseas, however, I'm not sure where that is at. I do know there is some real lag time in getting parts, or even purchasing a lift. You might want to consider getting standard replacement parts that may be needed in future now.

I was able to purchase a K&L industrial lift, 1750 lbs, for approximately the same price as the Handy. The dealer didn't even know what had happened to Handy until he called his supplier to secure one for me. He took pity on me and made me a deal.

Thought you should know, just in case.

 

Oh, absolutely the Engineer WAS OFF THE RECORD - long story of how I got to talk with him. It's fairly simple to do though, for those that can weld, just make sure to re-tune after removing the cat. H-D is well aware of the heat complaints, but competitive dollars seem to be in the way. Thus, the remove fairings corporate stance. It's like why isn't there an alarm on their security system? Who ever heard of a security system without an alarm? Same reason - more competitive pricing, a buck here, a buck there and people go to other bikes. That's why there are soooo many options in the catalog each year, a few bucks here, a few bucks there and you don't feel so bad. Purely psychological marketing.

I talked personally with some folks at assembly in York, PA this summer, they said pretty much the same thing, they know, but . . . I will tell you this, they were having trouble keeping up with the Trike orders, quoting, "we can't build them fast enough." Were bringing back laid off workers on a part-time basis. The separate assembly line for Trikes only - working 10 hour shifts and were getting ready to extend. The other "big bike" assembly line assemble ALL other "big bike" models. Whole operation at the old AMF plant moving across the street to what was the Sportster assembly next year for more modern updated production.

 

I removed the cat material also but just drilled it full of 1/4" holes, it did still hold a little heat in but was much better than before I opened it up. Yes I do my own welding. I took care of the residual heat by wrapping the head pipe and cat area with header wrap. XIED's to richin up the fuel plus some other mods. Put an oil temperture gauge on to verify lower temps and run an oil analysis at the 5000 service. You can tell your tech the EITMS has not kicked in all summer and was no hotter than 240F on a 98 degree day in traffic. You can also tell him the Parade fan and larger oil cooler should be OEM equipment.

The header, stage I and a good fuel management system is the best way to go but for the customer that is complaining about the extra cost over the initial purchase the decat, K&N replacement filter and XIED's offer a cheaper solution...will still need that upgraded oil cooler and parade fan in most cases. We layed it out on here on the record early on, we knew they had a heat problem and had to go ahead and fix it with MOCO saying the Trikes were not hot or to take our lower fairings off.

Good to know an engineer agreed with us though, on the record or off!

 

Thanks for the heads up I had heard about Handy shutting down but then heard they started back up, didn't know about the overseas move. The K&L looks like a pretty good lift.

 

coupe55 - you mention upgraded oil cooler. Did you have the H-D premium oil cooler, and still changed it out??

H-D is concerned, many dealers, about cost increases, profit margins, etc., thus, there are some "things" as riders we think they should do, but, they feel they need to eliminate certain things and make those options. And of course their "personalization marketing" scheme they have used for many years plays right into that corporate philosophy. I have to tell you, the most impressive thing I've seen in the H-D manufacturing is the H-D paint process - unbelievable detail, time and manufacturing costs. I was with working with a BMW rider on a matter at the time, and even he was impressed. H-D is very proud of that part of their manufacturing process.

 

No, my Tri is the 10 model with the 5 row cooler, MOCO probably reads the forum and put their Premium on the 11, or at least upgraded the cooler.

I went with the Jagg 10 row and the Arizona Fan kit, the latest version of the Ultra would be the way to go. HD's Premium cooler was an honest attempt to help with the heat problem but at idle they have no air moving through them. The Arizona set up is really small and don't move a lot of air through the cooler when standing still. The Ultra is what? 15 Row and a larger fan that covers the total cooler area, really moves some air I hear.