Tri-Glide Issues
#201
08-29-2010, 05:31 PM
With the Fuelmoto pipes, as per instructions, you reinstall sensors in their appropriate holes and plug the other ones. If you are using a PC V WITHOUT Autotune, the sensors just get tied-off and not plugged into ECM.
#202
08-29-2010, 09:16 PM
Jim - THANKS! That was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Wow, that's significant alright! Will be ordering a set from Jamie tomorrow.
Boom - from my point of view I have NOT noticed any change in torque at all when she's hot. However, like I said, we used the SE PRO to set her up. The lead mechanic that's at my dealership has become a student of the dyno computers, etc. He's written articles, etc. He's one of those guys that won't try to sell you something, if anything, he talks you out of spending your money until your sure and he's convinced that it will address your situation. He has me. He and the sales manager (known him for 30 years) are the kind of people you want to deal with. They too are searching for the best answer to the heat problem. The lowers disconnect kit idea was from H-D Power Plant engineer with whom I spoke directly, not the dealership guys. Dealership's response was, "Yea, well of course that will help some when your moving, but that's not the issue." I know, kind of a rare dealership I'm dealing with, but then again they've been selling H-D since 1925, and have been in business since 1916, and I can see why.
THANKS to everyone who has commented with opinion, thoughts and knowledge!!! If I can ever help, just yell!!
Boom - from my point of view I have NOT noticed any change in torque at all when she's hot. However, like I said, we used the SE PRO to set her up. The lead mechanic that's at my dealership has become a student of the dyno computers, etc. He's written articles, etc. He's one of those guys that won't try to sell you something, if anything, he talks you out of spending your money until your sure and he's convinced that it will address your situation. He has me. He and the sales manager (known him for 30 years) are the kind of people you want to deal with. They too are searching for the best answer to the heat problem. The lowers disconnect kit idea was from H-D Power Plant engineer with whom I spoke directly, not the dealership guys. Dealership's response was, "Yea, well of course that will help some when your moving, but that's not the issue." I know, kind of a rare dealership I'm dealing with, but then again they've been selling H-D since 1925, and have been in business since 1916, and I can see why.
THANKS to everyone who has commented with opinion, thoughts and knowledge!!! If I can ever help, just yell!!
#203
08-29-2010, 11:02 PM
Even with the CAT removed I'm still getting the heat under 30 mph. After riding for a couple hours and then having to reduce to that speed that's when I get the heat. So still looking at more innovative solutions from everyone and anyone.
After removing the CAT and adding V&H Ovals we used a EFI Super Tuner S.E. Pro to remap, etc. Right now I think we have it running pretty well as we're still in the break in period with the 2011 Trike. At a 1000 we'll need to do just a little more tweaking. So Jimer to answer your question, I'd say she's running very well. I have no problem what so ever off the line, none. Great torque, I can keep up with the best of them, no problem. Also, a side comment, a couple of buddies have tried the trike and have commented how impressed they were, after thinking, well it's a Trike, what do you want. They came away saying, hey, that's not bad, not bad at all.
Hope that answers your question. If there's something specific you'd like to know about performance without the CAT, let me know and I'll answer as best as I can.
So, back the question - do the Jackpots offer something more than the OEM head pipes are giving me without the CAT? In other words, is it because the Jackpots do not have a CAT makes the improvement in the heat issue, or is there something else they're doing, material used, tuning, etc. etc.?
THANKS to all by the way!!!
After removing the CAT and adding V&H Ovals we used a EFI Super Tuner S.E. Pro to remap, etc. Right now I think we have it running pretty well as we're still in the break in period with the 2011 Trike. At a 1000 we'll need to do just a little more tweaking. So Jimer to answer your question, I'd say she's running very well. I have no problem what so ever off the line, none. Great torque, I can keep up with the best of them, no problem. Also, a side comment, a couple of buddies have tried the trike and have commented how impressed they were, after thinking, well it's a Trike, what do you want. They came away saying, hey, that's not bad, not bad at all.
Hope that answers your question. If there's something specific you'd like to know about performance without the CAT, let me know and I'll answer as best as I can.
So, back the question - do the Jackpots offer something more than the OEM head pipes are giving me without the CAT? In other words, is it because the Jackpots do not have a CAT makes the improvement in the heat issue, or is there something else they're doing, material used, tuning, etc. etc.?
THANKS to all by the way!!!
The Jackpot 2/1/2 makes superior power to any true dual headpipe and will indeed make a large difference in heat for several reasons on both catalyst and non-catalyst models. The design of the collector in the stock headpipe is a very basic "box" type, this allows a major concentration of exhaust gases in the collector area of the exhaust system which causes a couple problems. Primarily speaking it does not allow proper flow and scavenging, and this concentration of gases creates a huge amount of heat which is trapped in this "box". Adding to this heat problem is the fact that inlet and outlet components of the stock head pipe are cast iron and the box is heavy guage steel which absorbs and greatly retains heat. With our 2/1/2 it uses what we call a "tandem flow" collector which provides superior flow and scavenging much like a 2 into 1. Not only are exhaust gasses expelled more efficiently, but the the pipe does not absorb the heat in the process. These aspects combined with the far superior heat dissipation of 304 stainless will result in a much cooler running exhaust system. On catalyst equipped models, combine these aspects along with a 1500 degree core in the collector and there are even larger improvements. Hope this helps.
#204
08-30-2010, 06:46 AM
The guy who tuned my dads trike on the dyno caught it while he was tuning other trikes. The dealer has tuned quite a few Triglides, the guy has mentioned it to Harley. The only thing I can think of is they are trying to deal with the emissions, when it starts to go into heat management it richens up the ARF to cool it some. I notice it some on mine when it gets ripping hot like yesterday. I'm in Nashville Tn right now and the temp has been in the high 80's and low 90's. I was caught in some stop & go traffic which finally had the EIMTS kick in. I was paying attention and noticed it wasn't quite as peppy when I would go to take off from a stop.
#205
08-30-2010, 07:08 AM
Cat in the headpipe
Bobs my experiment with the drilled cats reinforces the info you posted from fuel motto. I got a little relief from the heat in the cat area but it was still uncomfortable even after drilling out the cat. I wrapped the cat area first and got some significant heat reduction then wrapped the entire headpipe.
I feel this has been a good short term solution for me as there was no one in the aftermarket exhaust sector for the Tri Glides last August. The additional exhaust scavenging capabilities of the aftermarket pipe should give me an additional 4 HP as both major players report the same numbers. I am expecting some additional cooling also from either the stainless pipe because of the thermal conductivity characteristics of stainless steel or the 50% heat reduction from the ceramic pipe. I will wrap the stainless pipe if I go in that direction and thereby increase it's scavenging abilities and further reduce radiated heat.
Everyone reports a little bump in performance after installing the pipes and as in heat reduction we seem to get it in increments, a little here a little there. I am so close to where I want this Tri to be I feel the pipe and the 11 primary pulley will make my Tri functional at least.
I feel this has been a good short term solution for me as there was no one in the aftermarket exhaust sector for the Tri Glides last August. The additional exhaust scavenging capabilities of the aftermarket pipe should give me an additional 4 HP as both major players report the same numbers. I am expecting some additional cooling also from either the stainless pipe because of the thermal conductivity characteristics of stainless steel or the 50% heat reduction from the ceramic pipe. I will wrap the stainless pipe if I go in that direction and thereby increase it's scavenging abilities and further reduce radiated heat.
Everyone reports a little bump in performance after installing the pipes and as in heat reduction we seem to get it in increments, a little here a little there. I am so close to where I want this Tri to be I feel the pipe and the 11 primary pulley will make my Tri functional at least.
#206
08-30-2010, 07:10 AM
Club Member
This is the average Spark Temperature Correction for a 2010. Notice how high in the kPa and temperture range you must be for the spark to correct.
The average idle kPa is between 30 - 35 kPa.
The average cruising kPa is between 35 - 50 kPa.
If you get in the throttle your average kPa is between 55 - 100
While decel could go as low as the 15 kPa column.
112 degree Celsius = 233.6 degree Fahrenheit
192 degree Celsius = 377.6 degree Fahrenheit
Sometimes it fun to see just what is in the tuning calibration.
edit: I added one without color for those that can't see the numbers very well
The average idle kPa is between 30 - 35 kPa.
The average cruising kPa is between 35 - 50 kPa.
If you get in the throttle your average kPa is between 55 - 100
While decel could go as low as the 15 kPa column.
112 degree Celsius = 233.6 degree Fahrenheit
192 degree Celsius = 377.6 degree Fahrenheit
Sometimes it fun to see just what is in the tuning calibration.
edit: I added one without color for those that can't see the numbers very well
Last edited by Mr. Wizard; 08-30-2010 at 07:13 AM.
#207
08-30-2010, 11:18 AM
Bobs - thanks man, that helps a lot!!!
So here's a way of settling the lower fairings controversy. Anyone out there with the "street" version of the H-D Trike? They don't have the lower fairings. What are you "street" version guys experiencing on the right side of the trike?
So here's a way of settling the lower fairings controversy. Anyone out there with the "street" version of the H-D Trike? They don't have the lower fairings. What are you "street" version guys experiencing on the right side of the trike?
Last edited by agntjim; 08-30-2010 at 03:47 PM.
#208
08-30-2010, 04:14 PM
Thought you guys might get a kick out of this. Official H-D statement from their riding in extreme conditions booklet, which they sent out to me. My favorite is the first sentence, i.e., "If your goal is to stay cooler . . ." No, at this point my goal is to not have my inner right calf well done when I get home!!!
Cooler at riding Speed
If your goal is to stay cooler at regular riding speeds on select H-D Touring models, consider these options.
Remove Lower Fairings & Air Deflectors On FLHTCU Ultra Classic Electra Glides, the lower fairings and air deflectors block wind from hitting the rider, which in many conditions is a comfortable alternative. But when the temperature approaches triple digits, that reduced airflow can become uncomfortable. Some later model lower fairings have adjustable vents that should be opened or removed to increase airflow. Or by simply removing the lower fairings, you can dramatically increase airflow to the bike’s engine and rider, and keep cooler in the process.
A new Detachable Fairing Lower Hardware Kit (P/N 58146-07) is available for quick removal of the lower fairings. And a new Soft Storage Bag for Fairing Lowers (P/N 95983-07) helps protect the lower fairing when it’s not in use.
(It should be noted they talk about approaching triple digits here, however, that seems to have been “altered” to now really anything above 70 degrees. That's from engineering at the power division.)
Cooler at riding Speed
If your goal is to stay cooler at regular riding speeds on select H-D Touring models, consider these options.
Remove Lower Fairings & Air Deflectors On FLHTCU Ultra Classic Electra Glides, the lower fairings and air deflectors block wind from hitting the rider, which in many conditions is a comfortable alternative. But when the temperature approaches triple digits, that reduced airflow can become uncomfortable. Some later model lower fairings have adjustable vents that should be opened or removed to increase airflow. Or by simply removing the lower fairings, you can dramatically increase airflow to the bike’s engine and rider, and keep cooler in the process.
A new Detachable Fairing Lower Hardware Kit (P/N 58146-07) is available for quick removal of the lower fairings. And a new Soft Storage Bag for Fairing Lowers (P/N 95983-07) helps protect the lower fairing when it’s not in use.
(It should be noted they talk about approaching triple digits here, however, that seems to have been “altered” to now really anything above 70 degrees. That's from engineering at the power division.)
Last edited by agntjim; 08-30-2010 at 05:25 PM.
#209
08-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Well....lets see here now. Maybe they will also come out with a quick-detach kit for the entire front fairing to include the windshield and even the fender and crash bar. All this junk blocks the wind you know. Lets wait and see what other suggestions they may have....I can't wait to hear. You know....they do have removable fenders. If you just go ahead and remove the fenders it will not dam-up the air in there around the rider and passenger. Maybe the MOCO is thinking ahead after all?
#210
08-31-2010, 05:51 AM
This is the average Spark Temperature Correction for a 2010. Notice how high in the kPa and temperture range you must be for the spark to correct.
The average idle kPa is between 30 - 35 kPa.
The average cruising kPa is between 35 - 50 kPa.
If you get in the throttle your average kPa is between 55 - 100
While decel could go as low as the 15 kPa column.
112 degree Celsius = 233.6 degree Fahrenheit
192 degree Celsius = 377.6 degree Fahrenheit
Sometimes it fun to see just what is in the tuning calibration.
edit: I added one without color for those that can't see the numbers very well
The average idle kPa is between 30 - 35 kPa.
The average cruising kPa is between 35 - 50 kPa.
If you get in the throttle your average kPa is between 55 - 100
While decel could go as low as the 15 kPa column.
112 degree Celsius = 233.6 degree Fahrenheit
192 degree Celsius = 377.6 degree Fahrenheit
Sometimes it fun to see just what is in the tuning calibration.
edit: I added one without color for those that can't see the numbers very well