http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index....c,28664.0.html

Post #5

 

Even with the CAT removed I'm still getting the heat under 30 mph. After riding for a couple hours and then having to reduce to that speed that's when I get the heat. So still looking at more innovative solutions from everyone and anyone.

After removing the CAT and adding V&H Ovals we used a EFI Super Tuner S.E. Pro to remap, etc. Right now I think we have it running pretty well as we're still in the break in period with the 2011 Trike. At a 1000 we'll need to do just a little more tweaking. So Jimer to answer your question, I'd say she's running very well. I have no problem what so ever off the line, none. Great torque, I can keep up with the best of them, no problem. Also, a side comment, a couple of buddies have tried the trike and have commented how impressed they were, after thinking, well it's a Trike, what do you want. They came away saying, hey, that's not bad, not bad at all.

Hope that answers your question. If there's something specific you'd like to know about performance without the CAT, let me know and I'll answer as best as I can.

So, back the question - do the Jackpots offer something more than the OEM head pipes are giving me without the CAT? In other words, is it because the Jackpots do not have a CAT makes the improvement in the heat issue, or is there something else they're doing, material used, tuning, etc. etc.?

THANKS to all by the way!!!

 

Although my profession covers flow dynamics I am not trained in smaller high performance flow of this type but there are many similarities. So, although I've read about and studied each collector design and in some cases spoke with the designer. I see little if any difference between the two systems unless we are concerned with high performance racing motors or step design pipes. (clarification... between the FM and the FS systems, not the stock pipes)

The FM and the FS head pipe have a custom collector that improves HP and TQ over the stock pipes by 4 each at bolt on per each manufacturer and they have the dyno charts to prove their claims over the stock head pipe. I believe 3M said earlier... flip a coin.

 

I want to start by NOT claiming to be an expert, just a good reader. There is a post either by Jamie at FM or Wizard or both that covers why the design of the FM or FS headpipe was superior to the stocker with or without the catalyst. If I remember things right, all the stock design does is dump both cylinders into a common chamber and then release it through two holes. This will prove a very difficult environment for the O2 sensors on a 2010 model. Not so on the 2009 since the sensors are nearer to the heads. Both aftermarket designs use a crossover similar to an automobile x-pipe. O2 sensors are prior to the crossover and will function as intended for the 2010s. Additionally, the crossover will help scavenge the pulse of one cylinder as the one preceeding it cools, collapses and creates a vacuum. Hope I got that right. But from what I've read here and experienced with x-pipe and h-pipe crossovers on my Ranchero, I'd say the aftermarket headpipe is more than worth the money.

 

also the o2 sensors work better closer to the head, especially if you change to a tuner that uses wide band sensors

 

Bobs and Icebite1 - interesting comments - thank you! Those are exactly the kinds of comments, and expert knowledge I'm looking for, because I too am REALLY FAR from being an expert with bike engines. My expertise lies more in law and back to the days when Funny Cars were added as a category with NHRA. (Geez, now I'm showing my age!)

 

I believe the guy was reffering to an automobile, Nissan I thinK. 6 or 8 cylinders on a shared exhaust and the exhaust valves had a lot more duration.

This is the only place I have seen this, would like to see some more evidence of this than this one source that relates to automotive!

I will run mine until winter as planned with the drilled cat, runs good and runs cooler! Harley has these things set up to burn every bit of fuel possibible I don't think they are sucking back that much! At any rate if I was going to fry and engine I would have by now! It runs much better than it did with the cat!

 

The reason I asked how the TG was running without the CAT is: if all they did was remove the CAT without doing some type of tuner, you could be looking at future problems down the road.

In addition to not having a CAT, The FM Jack pot Head Pipes are constructed from aircraft grade stainless steel and dissipate heat very quickly. Plus the FM head pipe replaces the stock collector box with an efficient “X’ design creating better exhaust flow. As to your question: Will there be a SIGNIFICANT heat reduction difference…my 2009 did not come with a CAT and I realized SIGNIFICANT heat with the installation of the Fuel Moto Jack pot head pipe. The FM pipes along with the mods listed in my signature allowed me to reduce my engine oil temp from 300* on a 110* day to 240* on 118* day!

I would call that SIGNIFICANT!

Jim

 

Do you notice any loss of torque from a dead stop when the engine is hot? This is what some of us ('10 models) have been noticing even with headpipe changed. Someone mentioned that the timing is retarded when hot(??) Can't figure that one out.

 

question
with either FM or FS head pipe...do you retain the O2 sensors?? or are they discarded?