Yes, the owner's manual DOES say that 230F is the "normal temperature. But, as I found with the Breakout, and as so many other HD riders have reported, that 230F appears to be an HD pipe dream. I don't think I have seen ANYONE report an engine temperature that low unless they had their bike out on a cold winter day!

But again, the concern I have is the fact that the engine temperature on the trike appears to vary for no apparent reason, and the swings are very rapid. Those 7 "sample" screenshots I provided ARE just "samples". Anyone could understand an air & oil cooled engine temperature varying from hour to hour or day to day under different ambient outdoor temperatures and varying wind strengths and directions. But the smaple I posted all occurred within 80 minutes, and in between those samples, I could have taken MANY more showing different temperatures a minute apart.

What was the engine reacting to? The hills encoutnered were not steep nor did they vary a lot from each other. Just normal rolling prairie type hills. The wind was actually raher mild - even the gusts above the modest average velocity.

And, note that the engine tining did NOT vary very much. Just 29 to 31 degrees. So, the computer was not retarding timing due to the engine temperature.

Does anyone know exactly WHERE and HOW that engine temperature is measured?

Jim G

 

Schex,
Which temps are you speaking of?



Mike

 

Jim,
I do behave I saw that info on several models on a DK Custom video.

Ill look and see if I can find it.

We agree on the Pipe Dream of 230 deg F running temp, but high heat means possible damage. At 350 deg F aluminum will go out of round.

So I think I need to do all I can to make the bike run cooler and last longer.
I’ve already ordered an EBS from DK and looking hard at a Tank Lift kit.

ShovelEd had a temp of 267, which is much better.

Surley you’ve rode on a cool night and noticed an increase in power.
Good luck,
Mike

 

Engine temperature, the sensor is on the rear head.

 

I wonder: How does engine temperature compare to OIL temperature? I can see 300+ degrees F in the cylinder head metal, but 300+ in oil drastically redueces oil life. In fact, Donny Peterson (HD Guru who wrote multiple books on HD bikes and engines before he passed away) said that 300+ degrees F OIL decreases oil life by 80%.

Unfortunately, the HD engines do not appear to have an OIL temperature gauge. Donny Peterson had speculated that an extra threaded but plugged unused hole in the oil tank MIGHT someday house an oil temperature sensor, as he could see no other use for such a threaded hole.

Jim G

 

Airflow across the engine (which cools your tricycle) is greatly reduced by those ginormous rear fenders. I have tried tank lifts (fore and aft), decat the head pipe, open exhaust, open intake, stoopid rich tuning, lifting the seat, oil cooler fan, mid frame fan, etc. Nothing really makes a tremendous difference on the gauges, but perceived temp reduction (especially by the passenger) was greatest with decat headpipe & free flowing mufflers. Temp with too rich AFR took longer to get hot, but still got hot.
This is my tricycle @ 75MPH on the highway, 82° degree afternoon. The numbers in F°(320/354) used to bother me, but then I started looking at them in C°(160/179)

 

Very interesting! A few questions:

1. What are IVO 1 through 6?

2. Why are the VE front and Ve rear so different?

3. Why are the front and rear oxygen sensor values so different? (I assume these are wideband oxygen sensors for the front and rear cylinders, NOT pre-cat and post-cat Oxygen sensors)

The throttle position sensor at onyl 12.7% at 75 mph seems awfully good given the trike's huge frontal area and the wind resistance that creates. When I had my Breakout 117, i THINK I recall about that throttle position at more like 60 mph.

And, yeah, the engine temp "looks" a lot better when expressed as 160C versus 320F !

Jim G

 

I am preparing to do a Smart Tune session with my HD Bluetooth tuner, and am re-reading the instrucitons. Interestingly, HD provides this commentary within the instructions for the Bluetooth tuner, on NORMAL ECU operation:

"Heat Management System

The ESPFI systems also incorporates a sophisticated heat management system that operates in three-phases to keep things cool in extreme conditions.

Phase I: If the ECM detects engine temperature above approximately 300° F while moving or stationary it reduces the idle speed. A lower idle speed produces fewer combustion events per minute and that reduces engine heat.

Phase II: If the ECM detects an engine temperature that’s still drifting higher while moving or stationary it richens the AFR. An increased amount of fuel in the air/fuel mixture has a cooling effect on the engine.

Phase III: If the ECM detects an engine temperature that’s still drifting higher while moving or stationary it directs the fuel injectors to skip, (only when the bike is stationary) and not deliver fuel on every intake stroke. This limits the number of combustion events taking place, which produces less heat.

The three phases just described function seamlessly, and the rider may not notice the transition from one phase to the next.
"

Interesting, isn't it.

Jim G

 

IVO 1-6 are data taken from the MAP sensor @ different crank tooth times- used for Cam Tune Data in TTS.

Each cylinder has different components, airflow, injectors, and timing tables, and a shared intake tract. It's common/normal for differences between F & R tables .

That's narrow band data, represented in MV. NBs are switching O2 sensors, and the ECM programming is designed to verify proper operation by driving the cylinder lean or rich, then analyzing the O2 data to verify the engine responded as expected.
This is the very next record, and you can see the O2 voltage is different from a millisecond before.

Throttle position is less than stock because of the 64mm TB, +1 heads, etc.

 

Very interesting.

I had the chariot out agin for a ride this morning, with ambient outdoor temperature being only 14C = 57F. The reported engine temperature only got to 300 briefly near the begiing of the ride in suburban traffic, but then dropped into the 290s and then 280s when I was riding at 100 and 110 kph = 62 and 68 mph. Since I have enough odometer mileage on the chariot to begin hitting the throttle and the rpm more forcefully, I discovered that the chariot likes to lift the front end when accelerating up to highway speed on a busy highway posted at 110 kph = 68 mph. I suspect the various traction control systems would shut down the festivities if they lasted long enough to have the front wheel starting to turn slower than the rear wheels.

Jim G