Why does my bke ping
#11
08-20-2014 | 02:33 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,175
Likes: 7,922
From: In my head
#12
08-20-2014 | 02:33 PM
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 398
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
OP, 2800~3200 is right where my 09 FLHTC would ping going up 6% grades- completely stock.
Luckily for me xieds solved that and I was able to add hi flow air cleaner and exhaust to good result.
pinging will sound irregular ( a regular noise is more likely valvetrain clatter, as the valves are part of a regulated mechanical assembly) I think more pebbles in a coffee can, bb's in a coke bottle works too.
Pre-ignition or "pinging" is the air/ fuel mixture exploding in the cylinder, rather than burning at a controlled rate in the combustion chamber- this may happen as the piston is coming up- compressing- the mixture.
The the mixture explodes much like a diesel.
the problem is that the piston is pushed back down the wrong way by this force- putting a load on the bearings.
aluminum parts of the heads can also be affected and burn- the sharp edges of this damage can then act like a glow plug...causing more pinging.
The root causes of pinging are:
low octane gas- octane rating describes the ability of a fuel to resist compression ignition
lean mixture
too advanced ignition timing- where the plugs fire before the piston is getting to the top of the bore- this can be complicated by combustion temperatures- a hot motor will act as if the ignition timing is farther advanced than it actually is.
damage in the combustion chamber ( glowplugs)
carbon deposits can also act as glowplugs
The ECM may not be properly sensing the air density in the intake
In most cases the ECM will detect pinging and retard spark timing- but non stock spec plug wires and plugs may screw with that ( see the 200 "ion sense" discussions).
When the timing is retarded at speeds like yours, power is reduced and the motor "bogs" requiring a downshift ( I'm talking more like going up a grade, as I never really experience pinging on level ground).
as for spark timing, the "best" timing is as advanced as possible...just shy of pinging- this is how I set up all my old Cadillacs.
more control of your spark timing and fuel mixture may solve your problem, but the settings will need to be done by someone with a good understanding of how all these factors work together.
Mike
Luckily for me xieds solved that and I was able to add hi flow air cleaner and exhaust to good result.
pinging will sound irregular ( a regular noise is more likely valvetrain clatter, as the valves are part of a regulated mechanical assembly) I think more pebbles in a coffee can, bb's in a coke bottle works too.
Pre-ignition or "pinging" is the air/ fuel mixture exploding in the cylinder, rather than burning at a controlled rate in the combustion chamber- this may happen as the piston is coming up- compressing- the mixture.
The the mixture explodes much like a diesel.
the problem is that the piston is pushed back down the wrong way by this force- putting a load on the bearings.
aluminum parts of the heads can also be affected and burn- the sharp edges of this damage can then act like a glow plug...causing more pinging.
The root causes of pinging are:
low octane gas- octane rating describes the ability of a fuel to resist compression ignition
lean mixture
too advanced ignition timing- where the plugs fire before the piston is getting to the top of the bore- this can be complicated by combustion temperatures- a hot motor will act as if the ignition timing is farther advanced than it actually is.
damage in the combustion chamber ( glowplugs)
carbon deposits can also act as glowplugs
The ECM may not be properly sensing the air density in the intake
In most cases the ECM will detect pinging and retard spark timing- but non stock spec plug wires and plugs may screw with that ( see the 200 "ion sense" discussions).
When the timing is retarded at speeds like yours, power is reduced and the motor "bogs" requiring a downshift ( I'm talking more like going up a grade, as I never really experience pinging on level ground).
as for spark timing, the "best" timing is as advanced as possible...just shy of pinging- this is how I set up all my old Cadillacs.
more control of your spark timing and fuel mixture may solve your problem, but the settings will need to be done by someone with a good understanding of how all these factors work together.
Mike
Last edited by mkguitar; 08-21-2014 at 01:21 PM.
#13
08-20-2014 | 02:36 PM
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,818
Likes: 580
From: Michigan
I have a 2012 Ultra Classic. I'm running a decatted stick head pipe, stock air cleaner, Bassani slip ons and XIED's. When it is very hot outside ( above 85 degrees), I'm getting some pinging. At first I thought it was my gremlin bell, but I don't think it is. It is pinging between 2800 and 3000 RPM's right where I like to cruise. I was hoping to avoid getting a tuner. All I wanted was a little more sound and a cooler running engine. I'm not into having the fastest bike. So, I'm currently saving up for a powervision, thinking that will get rid of the ping, also an adjustable riders backrest, and a set of 10 inch ape hangers (to relieve the pain between my shoulder blades). Approximately, 1500$ dollars wort of stuff. Will this madness never end!!!! Why does my bike ping between 2800 and 3000 RPM's when it is hot outside?
#14
08-20-2014 | 02:41 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 124
From: Chandler, Arizona
Oh that's it. I'm a dumb phuq, not an old skewl genius like you. He messed with his bike and now it pings. Let's hear your genius solution.
#16
08-20-2014 | 03:12 PM
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 12
From: Fort Worth
Seriously? What if the OP is on flat ground or going down a hill! No way is 2800 lugging the engine. If you cannot accelerate in the gear you are in, then you need to downshift. Terrain, wind and elevation all play in to the RPM area where you would be lugging the engine.
I generally follow the owner's manual:
First to second = 15
Second to third = 25
Third to fourth = 35
Fourth to fifth = 45
Fifth to sixth = 55
I generally follow the owner's manual:
First to second = 15
Second to third = 25
Third to fourth = 35
Fourth to fifth = 45
Fifth to sixth = 55
#17
08-20-2014 | 03:38 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,666
Likes: 5,632
From: SE Michigan
Seriously? What if the OP is on flat ground or going down a hill! No way is 2800 lugging the engine. If you cannot accelerate in the gear you are in, then you need to downshift. Terrain, wind and elevation all play in to the RPM area where you would be lugging the engine.
I generally follow the owner's manual:
First to second = 15
Second to third = 25
Third to fourth = 35
Fourth to fifth = 45
Fifth to sixth = 55
I generally follow the owner's manual:
First to second = 15
Second to third = 25
Third to fourth = 35
Fourth to fifth = 45
Fifth to sixth = 55
#18
08-20-2014 | 04:15 PM
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 48
From: WI
Actually Oldskewl, rubberfrog is exactly spot on. The guy needs a tune. You cant make those modification and expect it to be fine. Well, actually you can but then you get what he has. If it is pinging, get it fixed sooner rather than later. It can be detrimental. He is thinking about buying a PV tuner anyway. Just DO it. Buy it from Fuel Moto and have them pre-load a map. Or better still, have it Dynoed IF you have a shop near by that REALLY understands the PV. Truth is, EVERY bike benefits from a proper tune stock or not.
#19
08-20-2014 | 04:17 PM
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 756
Likes: 2
From: Virginia
#20
08-20-2014 | 04:30 PM
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Eastern, PA.
+1..Same problem before I dropped the coin for a tune. Pinging was absolutely horrible. I have an 2012 Limited can run 2 up now 6th gear on flat road 2000 to 2300 rpm. No pinging...zero none...much better tourque @ 102 Tourque and 80 hp....Bossani over under Arlen Ness air cleaner. Techno Key Race Tuner..
.....Get your bike properly tuned.....