Ok folks,
After reading and searching, I haven't seen a definitive answer so here it goes.

The facts as I read them are:
1. Our bikes run a little lean out of the gate.
2. If you add an A/C and pipes (slip on or full) without a tune, it will run even leaner, possibly enough to damage the motor.

Now this is where I get a little fuzzy.
Can I get a 'stage 1' download without an A/C to get the bike richer without hurting it?
The best thing for performance would be to get 'x' brand tuner and take it to a dyno and have a custom map created for the bike.
The other option is to get a 'stage 1' download from the dealer and that will richen it up a bit to compensate for the A/C and pipes. The othe option/or in addition to the download is to get a (X)IED to fool the bike into running richer. Not as good as a custom tune, but better than running lean.

Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks!

 

you have to balance "best" vs cost.
( and i would suggest that "best" would be a replacement computer such as the Thundermax, rather than a device which is trying to "translate" sensor signals to the ECM, and alter signals from the ECM to the accuators controlling fuel and spark).



I'll tell you what worked for me and why

I use xieds- I have a 2009 96" FLHTC.

when stock this bike pinged between 2800~3200 rpms up 6% grades*- this was repeatable and fuel type/octane was ruled out as a factor.

so I put on xieds and this solved that completely- the xieds for my model are fixed value and enrichen the mixture about 8% under most riding conditions- fully warmed motor, part throttle.

then I swapped to hi flow muffler ( no cat on the 09)- tuned supertrapps for a few thousand miles to good result.
then I installed a ness big sucker.

10,000 miles later i have a stage 1 for under $400 and it works great. my mpg went from 44 to 43 MPG for my typical riding style ( 70-ish on 2 lane highways)
I have no need to alter the rev limiter- I have other bikes that go fast- the bagger is a...bagger



I have no plans to use a cam or do motor work- if I had i would have looked at another device.

i will say that when i was shopping bikes, some of them had a popular aftermarket tuner and were obviously mis-tuned. whether by owner or shop I dunno.
but if you are getting 32 mpg and pouring black smoke out the back...something ain't right.


xieds work for me


as for #2, my riding pal has high flow intake and exhaust ( no cat) on his 2011 FLHTK- it runs great. no tuner, no download. we have thousands of miles side by each and his bike just runs. We both get 43 MPG

mike

*The ECM would sense the pinging and retard spark timing- thus a loss of power, requiring a downshift...then maybe another on a long grade.
Long 6% grades are common in AZ.

 

The HD Download doesn't make the bike run richer and is fairly expensive...most will tell you this is a waste of money.

The Xied/Vied option works for many. I tried it because it was only $100 or so but in the end went with the Powervision for about $400. With the PV, you really don't need to take it to a dyno....you start with a stock "map" and do a few autotune (comes with it) runs and you're off to the races. If you ever change anything on the bike, you can re-tune it yourself or if you choose take it to a professional.

There are many ways to skin this cat, but the HD download is probably not your best option.

 

Since you've just joined the forum, I'll cut you a bit of slack.

First, that "definitive" answer has been given thousands of times...some were actually correct.

(1) Runs lean "out of the gate..." may or may not be true. In almost every case, it's simply someone's opinion and usually that someone wants you to buy their product or service.

(2) Like #1, that may or may not be true. Until you measure the ratio before and after changes have been made, one won't really know the ratio.



Make sure you understand what a "stage 1" does and does not do. You might be surprised and even more confused as to why you spent money on the download.


You used a key word...FOOL.

If you're good with mediocre and not really interested in having a bike that runs well, then go with the download and whatever ied's. That should fool you into thinking you've got a good-running machine.

 

The only way to know what is really happening is to put it on a dyno and measure it. A proper tuner and tune is the best thing ya can do for your motor and rideability.

 

If you think something works....then it does.
And that's good enough for that person.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/new-r...ean-motor.html
This is fun
Hap

 

We have a winner.

This has been beat to death over and over again, and no matter how many times it's repeated the answer doesn't change.

 

I have used the Xied product in the past, and have them currently installed on my RK. They work as advertised. The only other mod I plan on at this point, are some slip-ons.
Lots of folks have the Stage 1 and are completely happy; I believe it raises the rev limiter and makes adjustments to handle the increased air flow from the modified air intake.
If you plan on engine modifications in the future, I would suggest getting an aftermarket replacement tuner, not one that "piggybacks" onto your existing ECM.
It all depends on what you want, and how much you got...

 

Thanks for the advise and the 'slack'.
I do understand topics that get asked every other day and unfortunately the more they are asked, the less info gets put into them, as stated, they do get played out. Thanks for entertaining at least one more time
So from what I see, its the classic case of if your gonna buy it, buy it once, do it right the first time.

 

Well one topic that didn't come up till now is how the replacement ECM affects your warranty .
So there it is
Hap