After reading some of the advice on the two up thread. Telling the passenger to lean with you and or waiting until she is more comfortable, then to start leaning with you.Does this mean ridersare leaning or under the impression that is how tomake a bike turn.I'm curious about how many people might be out there riding and not understanding this whole issue. In addditon I've seen very little conversationabout it here. Yet there is nothing more important about operating a two wheeled vehicle.

 

Countersteering is not even understood by many, I learned it long ago, at a MScourse, after already riding for twenty years. I can say it was the one best thing I learned in that class, it has saved my *** a few times since.

 

I amazed at the number of people that are not aware. They should hand you a brochure when you buy the bike. I have found very few Harley brothers to ride with due to this fact. I'm out driving through a slight 35 mph turn with one hand by either pushing or pulling and typically doing 50 plus and the people I'm riding with think I some kind of speed deamon, yet I'm caring on a casual conversation with my wife. Some have accused me of kicking the back tire out and or getting it spinning to go around turns so fast, and I'm like what the f****.

 

I think you may find that many riders do it but are unaware of the mechanics of what they are doing.

As far as your comments on the leaning thing go, I guess I missed your point, it is absolutly necessary to lean a mc when negotiating a turn or bend at all but very low speeds. In fact I dont think I could avoid it even if I tried.

[sm=dontgetit.gif]

 

Last year I took an experianced riders course.One of the drills is todo a cone weave with one hand at about 10mph. It was shocking to see how many could not get past the first cone with out grabing the handlebars.

 

Counter steering and leaning go hand-in-hand. I roadrace with Wera and have done a bit of track instruction and I am amazed at how many trackday riders and/or racers don't understand the principles associated with getting a motorcycle around a corner properly. Some of these guys are EXTREMELY fast but they don't know how they are doing it. That unattained knowledge may come in handy if the ever "need" it like avoiding an obstacle or some other type of emergency. Keith Code has a book and video series called "A Twist of the Wrist"(1&2) and those should be required reading for every motorcyclist. The books are geared toward the racetrack envrionment but the basic principles and lessons are very beneficial for the street rider. Operating a big Harley is a bit different from my racebikes but the lessons I have learned on the track have helped me many times when riding my Harley. To Detro, I know exactly what you are saying about other Harley riders acting like I am riding like some madman simply because my safe pace is so much faster than theirs. What do you do though, change your style? Nahhh, they will catch up eventually

 

I think the point is 'you don't turn because you lean, you lean because you turn.'
The turn is initiated by the countersteering and the rest follows.


Right??

 

Additionally the passenger only leans with the rider and the bike. No more, no less. Keeping their head looking over the riders shoulder to the outside of the turn. Generally speaking. In most circumstances. Most of the time.

 

Steering a motorcycle backwards to a car in a panic
situation is so critical of a reflex to keep sharp IMO
that I only put 300 miles on my car in 2006 and
70,000 miles on my motorcycles.

IMO it is so hard to tune your brain to do an opposite
reaction in a panic situation if you driving your car about
20,000 miles a year and your motorcycle 1 to 5,000 miles
a year. I think it is much easyer to to make yourself turn
into a wreck to make the motorcycle go away from the
wreck if your not piling more miles up on your car tuning
yourself to turn away from the wreck which will on your
motorcycle put you right into the wreck!

In my 40+ years of riding almost 2 million miles, I've
seen alot of low mileage riders getkilled or hurt from
using car reactions on their motorcycle because they
spend more time training themselves to drive their
car then they do their motorcycle!

Heres a way I've been practicing tuning my reflexes
to react correctly and quickly for years even back in
my road race days. When I ride the interstate if I can
get out there on a light or no traffic day I try to ride
my bike back and forth through the white stripes in the
center of the two lanes. I see how fast I can go doing
this, it gets pretty hard above 50MPH and very hard
at the 70MPH speed limit. I won't say at what MPH I
can do it up to The other thing I like to do on low
or no traffic roads is to pick a spot on the road, oil spot,
small pot hole,piece of tar,dead flat bird or what ever
is on the road in my path and seeif I can miss it at speed
with no hesitation,clean and smooth on reflex only with
no planning. I hope this might help some of you reading
this thread!

Thats my .02 on counter steering!

 

Have you ever had a passenger on the back that would lean the opposite direction from the turn? It makes turning a bit difficult. I agree that countersteering is how you turn, bur having another 120lbs behind you that follows your body and where it goes will certainly help. I know turn right push right, turn left push left.