You really just need to understand the concept and then put itinto practice by trying it. The only part of teaching it would be to have it properly explained. I think there is probably enough info in this thread to do that for you.

 

OK I have a question. I have been riding 7-8 years now so I feel like I am a pretty confident rider but I am not sure what you all are talking about here with counter steering or turning the opposite direction of a turn???

When I corner I push the bar into the corner that I am turning. For example if I am headed into a right corner I push on the right grip thus forcing the bike to lean right and turn the the right. Is this what you are all calling counter steering??? I never took the Rider Safety Course, but I made my wife take it after I taught her how to ride in a parking lot, and this is what they taught her as well.

I also have the Ride Like a Pro DVDs and they never talk about this turn away from a corner either as far as my memory is correct. Maybe I should watch it again.

Just curious. If someone could let me know what I am missing I would appreciate it as I have never been comfortable on my RKC in twisties. My CBR1000 is another story, but I feel like I can just throw that bike around.

Jeff

 

You pretty much have it in a nutshell. However it would be better not to concentrate on one sid of the bar as much as making it a push / pull effort. Like you said on your right hander, push on the right side while at the same time pulling the left side. Using both bars will allow you to stand it back up quicker and allow you to handle switch backs and a much more proficient maner.

 

Thanks Detro,
That is pretty much what I do, just simplified it in my example.

Jeff

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE pick up the book Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough.
The book is something EVERY rider should read. He's also got a 2nd book "More Proficient Motorcycling". However AT LEAST the 1st book is something you NEED to read.

I know this thread is a little old and recently revived, but I still think it's an appropriate topic.
I see so many riders (some of them have been riding for years!) who don't know how to countersteer and are completely oblivious to what the proper lines are on a curve. I ride in the Hill Country almost ever weekend and riders of all types of cycles just don't understand the basics of motorcycling.

Some riders countersteer, but don't know that they're doing it. Learning what countersteering is and how it should be used can make the difference between a close call and another motorcycle death. Car pulls out in front of you? Debris on the road? Need to emergency stop in the middle of a curve/turn? If these are things you know you might come across while riding...you'd better understand the concept of countersteering and how it works.

This is one reason I recommend a smaller displacement cycle to all new riders. Sure some new riders can handle a 1200cc cycle to start with. But, EVERY rider I've seen get a big cycle (or a 600+ cc sportbike)as a FIRST bike spends more time trying to tame the beast than sharpenning their riding skills. As a result, they may live and ride for years but those things that make you a good motorcyclist (ie SAFE motorcyclist) are never developed.

It's a shame. I know a guy with a sportbike as a 1st bike. The thing is wicked fast.
He's been riding for about 2 yrs and STILL can't keep up with me in the twisties while I'm on my Road King. I am by no means a proficient motorcyclist, but only because I understand some of the basics of motorcycling, I take the proper/safer lines, go into and come out of the curves/turns at the right speeds, and understand countersteering that guy in the superfast sportbike (who doesn't understand/study these things) has no chance against me.I know speed is not everything to an HD owner, but SAFETY should be. Each of the things I mentioned in this paragraph can save your life in an emergency situation.

Why not arm yourself with the proper knowledge? I really think it makes riding more enjoyable.

Here's the book at AMAZON (but I bought mine at a local bookstore): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...kstorenow56-20

 

Well said. In the beginning of this thread I made the statement that they should hand out brochures on the subject the day you buy one. I also realize people do it without knowing what they are doing and it that lack of knowledge that keeps them from perfecting it to a point where it will save them time and time again. Not to mention the confindence it gives you and the improvement of the overall experience of riding.

 

I thought his first book was great. I didn't know he had another out there, I'll have to check it out. +1 on the binding.

 

You can be standing still, sitting upright on your bike and slightly push on the left or right bar and feel the bike wanting to lean.

 

Well I struggle with the “counter steering” term because that is not what we are really doing. I think “Push steer” is a better term. Counter steering is turning the front wheel in the opposite direction of the turn, much the same as a dirt track racer takes the curve or a car steers to recover from sliding around the slick corner.

Someone mentioned we are always steering in the opposite direction of the turn on our street bikes, only in a much smaller manner. That is not true. The front wheel has to turn in the direction of a turn to make normal turns. You can’t change physics. The problem for us however is physics tries to pull or bikes into the turn more than we want, so we resist that force with counter pressure.

Initiating a Push in the direction of the turn (push left, turn left) basically makes our whole body react to make the bike turn in that direction. We may not realize it, but in a micro second we are making lots of little changes like turning the wheel and learning almost at the same to balance our weight on the bike over the turn. Depending on the bike, you will hold counter pressure to prevent the bike from wanting to turn more. I was surprised how much counter pressure I have to hold on my Road King to hold the line, a lot more than my friends Yamaha Warrior. Probably so they are still easy to steer with a lot of added weight when touring.

I hope I haven’t confused things, the actions are still the same, push left to turn left and push right to turn right. That is the important habit to learn.

I was also a long time dirt biker and I think the reason dirt bikers have a hard time at first is because the bikes are so light that riders manipulate or man handle the bike into turns with their arms much more then on the street. Dirt bikers are still doing all the same things, but the moves are more dramatic to move the bike around the tight corners because they are ridingat slower speeds. So they learn to turn the wheel in the direction they want to go with both arms and lean into the turn instead of just the push left to turn left. But when dirt bikers get up to higher speeds, they are unknowingly doing the push left to turn left actions like we are taught to do on our street bikes.

If you want to see a more dramatic view of what you are doing on the highway, have someone video record you while making turns and circles in a parking lot. You will see how the front wheel turns left while you push left to turn left and how you and the bike follow with the lean. But, you still feel as if you are pushing the wheel in the opposite direction because you have to resist the bike wanting to turn more.

Great discussion and I agree, we need to talk about it a lot. I’m still trying to get better at it on the highway.

Beary

 

I'm pretty sure you can't have one without the other.

If I understand correctly (which I may not) if you lean while at speed, just the shift in your weight does the same physical thing to the bike as if you were to countersteer. e.g. your front tire toes out in the opposite direction to your lean. It's just not very pronounced. Pushing on the bar in the direction you want to go is like leaning but amplified X times. Most times if I'm cruising down the road through shallow curves I'll just shift my weight to make the curves. If I need to corner harder/faster, I countersteer. If the conditions are slick, I try not to countersteer much at all, even through sharper corners (which forces me to slow down and stay more upright).

*shrug*

I think what gets a lot of people in trouble is the fact that they don't understand that, if they are laid over in a turn and try to steer in the direction of the turn, it actually has the effect of standing the bike up and pushing you in a straight line. They get in trouble, panic, and revert back to cage driving behavior. And end up highsided or crashed into an oncoming vehicle.