Thanks guys now I'll have to save another month or two so I can get a DDT. Probably OK since it'll take a month or so for my eyes to heal. Bryan what a shot.[sm=outcold.gif]
Great job, I bet that bike really rolls now!!

 

Better add one of these to the list your quoting for me Bart. That is as long as Phil can be near a computer and/or phone when I go to hook it up.

 

gotcha...have the rest of your stuff on Monday....pm coming

 

Thanks. Be nice now. I don't have the kind of cash those Texas boyz do......

 

To what values does the DTT "auto-tune" to at WOT: a/f and ignition timing, specifically.

An engine can give a desired a/f at a given ignition timing, but could also give this same a/f with even more fuel and more advanced timing (getting as good a "burn" as the earlier fuel/timing settings), probably generating more power and torque with the additional fuel and timing. So the "brain" in the auto tune is making that decision for you; but what is it?

 

What type of tuners are you guys replaceing, i have a PC111 now but I have my name on a list at my HD shop for a sert when they come in, This sounds like it may save $ for folks that can't leave things alone

 

Carl - You have to tell the brain what you want the target timing and AFR to be. Timnig is static (for now) and AFR is dynamic. I think the specif point you are tying to make is that the installer still has to know what he wants his targets to be, espically the timing. So far, and we are just getting statrted with these things (and they are already MUCH better than what we had B4), so I have not even started trying to optimize timing yet. I am using the baseline values Doug provided.... So far / so GOOD!

DaveTheBuilder - I had a PCIIIusb & Bryan had a SERT. You are EXACTLY right about this thing and guys that can't leave stuff alone!

BZ - I'm here, dude..... you'll love it!

 

Playing the devil's advocate, but with constructive ideations, I'd like to present a few questions/comments:

I'm certainly not pro-(insert any fuel management system here) but the SERT does seem to offer a WIDE range of tunability in the right hands. I have no doubt that the "auto-tuners" can do just that....automatically tune, and comparing these auto-tuners to tuners intended to be tweaked to perfection via a dyno run is fair, BUT I am a little skeptical on these auto-tuners being able to "out-perform" the SERT.

Reiterating of playing the devil's advocate and even thinking about this in a superficial way, if the auto-tuners were the "way to go", I'd think the Race tuner would be obsolete and pratically non-existent. Now, having said all that, what IF Bryan's bike was potentially improperly tuned(regardless of the reputation of the tuner) while running the SERT, and now the DTT is displaying behavior that would give the "WOW" factor?.........how would WE know the difference? Could the EASE of tunability of the DTT compared to the complexity of the SERT's tunability play a factor in the proposed performance increase?

Reason for asking isI see allthe people running auto-tuners praise the ease of tuning(which is good), bring in how "cost-effective" the auto-tuners are compared to the necessity of re-dynotuning with the other contenders(which is good) but what about the ACTUAL benefit of the tuner in relation to the engine and it's components not to mention the actual numbers that show HP/Torque increases throughout the power curve........eg. numbers. I know, numbers aren't everything and I'll be the first to agree, however, when comparing something that is the "next best thing to sliced bread"(auto-tuners) with something as versatile and efficient as the race tuner, I ponder it's REAL competitive efficacy. In the right hands the Race Tuner seems to be the potential dominating tuner, problem is...........finding the most knowledgable tuner.[>:]

Just food for thought and I'm open to be convinced to join the masses of auto-tuner ownership, as money is not the problem, just need facts.

 

Phil and Doug, I just pm'd ya both. I think though that some of the answers need to be out here and a lot of good questions are being asked. I already anm leaning towrds this, was thinking the Thundemax prior to this, but still wanting to know more. Bottom line, lots of dollars invested in the build, and really want the best return on the dollar meaning most power and rideability. If this is the way to go, my PC-III will be history - e-bay here it comes, havent even ran it yet. Cant take it back as it was installed. (no, I am not one of those that would clean it up and take it back to where I purchased it, so dont suggest that. - my mistake although I had great result with my previous PC-III)

 

Great point(s) and Darren.

This technology has been around for years in the automotive industry and is most certainly in the car(s) in your garage, unless they are in the range of 20+ years old.

The granularity you have with a SERT is there in the DTT, and then some. The DTT has the control systems onboard that allow it to be dynamic. In the proper hands a SERT is an incredible tuner. BUT even so, it is STATIC. What happens when ya change pipes, cams, pistons, air filter?The SERT can not adjust on it;s onw.

Let's consider some simple things that most of us will experience...
[ul][*]You get yourself some new slipon or a new pipe. Well, 6~8 months from now when the packing starts getting burned out the flow characteristics will change some. How much? Probably not that much & you'll never notice because it happens at such a gradual rate. With a system that it constantly tuning, the "state of tune" remains optimized.[*]You just finish a build or get you bike back from the shop that installed your new "Stage II BigBore KIt". In the kit was a nice, new (pre-oiled) highflow air filter. You (or the shuo) seat the rings and set out to dyno tune the SERT that was added with the new build. All is well & good. The next time you service your bike, dilignetly clean and re-oil that K&N filter. Well now, just how much or how little oil should I spray on there? Who cares.... it won't matter. Well... from an air flow perspective, it DOES matter. You have just influenced the amount of air available for the inbound mixture. Is it enough to matter... well, it goes back to the "state of tune" and wether it's optimized or not and if you really care. I've been over 100k miles doing it the old fashion way. Yea.... fine.[*]How 'bout your bike is fine and during a routine service, you discover that the shop installed one of those crappy blue trimmed S/E air filters and that you, too, are experiencing the filter "sucking in" like many have complained about. Armed with the knowledge and recommendations from your forum friends, you tell them they sold you faulty equipment and because you have a "good" dealership, they GIVE you the K&N replacement element. Man, that's great....eh? Well... DAMN, you just had that SERT dyno tuned by Rolling THunder and it "was" perfect.... Guess what.... You are running lean in some areas now, because that K&N flows better than the blue rimmed POS, that they replaced for "free".[/ul]
For those that do NOT change stuff up periodically (me definately NOT included), the biggest benefits of the DTT (or TMax) are getting the proper and complete tune and then "maintaining it".

I amnot making anything from DTT (wish I was), just sharing my experience....

Now I can add DTT to the group, along with pipes, seats,& bike models.... One does not fit all.....

* For the record: D&D, Mustang, RG, & DTT