Are we getting robbed for a 2014.....
#81
08-27-2013, 06:42 AM
In a word YES LOL. I work at a car dealership and its the same way. When a new model comes out everybody wants to be 1st and the demand exceeds supply, after 6 months or so, everything will settle down and prices will come back down to average. Our old bikes will go back up in value and everyone will stop loosing sleep
I sold my 2005 roadking classic for $12,000 this year in 1 week. The best thing about Harley's is there ability to stay cool even as new models come out. I think 2009 was really the big year for change. The new frame was a huge improvement. Motors and appearance items are easy to upgrade, but frames and six gallon tanks are a different story. I'm not so sure I would have paid the extra $$$$ to get a 2014 over my 2013 if I was looking now. I am glad that they changed the 2014 though and are keeping things fresh and competitive. Long live HD I love my bike ticking valves and all other minor annoyances included Harley's are and always will be the coolest comfy ride out there!
I sold my 2005 roadking classic for $12,000 this year in 1 week. The best thing about Harley's is there ability to stay cool even as new models come out. I think 2009 was really the big year for change. The new frame was a huge improvement. Motors and appearance items are easy to upgrade, but frames and six gallon tanks are a different story. I'm not so sure I would have paid the extra $$$$ to get a 2014 over my 2013 if I was looking now. I am glad that they changed the 2014 though and are keeping things fresh and competitive. Long live HD I love my bike ticking valves and all other minor annoyances included Harley's are and always will be the coolest comfy ride out there!
#82
08-27-2013, 06:46 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Brettnbama...
You make several good points...and I do understand retail.
My only statement was I don't really care for the new models, maybe down the road I'll start to like them. I just traded a 12 SG for my 13 Ultra...got an ok deal,one I could live with, but I traded up, SG to UC..in retrospect I should have purchased a UC in 2012 and not the SG...I'm a ultra guy, I should have known better....my mistake.
But I can't see trading my 13 for a new 14....to big a hit for me...and I'm not bashing the dealers, just common sense for my...
But for a dealership to say my 13 is not worth anything anymore because the 14's are so much better...Please...don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining.....just be upfront and say, hey I got to make money so here's the deal.....
You make several good points...and I do understand retail.
My only statement was I don't really care for the new models, maybe down the road I'll start to like them. I just traded a 12 SG for my 13 Ultra...got an ok deal,one I could live with, but I traded up, SG to UC..in retrospect I should have purchased a UC in 2012 and not the SG...I'm a ultra guy, I should have known better....my mistake.
But I can't see trading my 13 for a new 14....to big a hit for me...and I'm not bashing the dealers, just common sense for my...
But for a dealership to say my 13 is not worth anything anymore because the 14's are so much better...Please...don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining.....just be upfront and say, hey I got to make money so here's the deal.....
Last edited by Casper; 08-27-2013 at 06:48 AM.
#84
08-27-2013, 06:59 AM
It's really that simple.
In the 90s most bikers were waiting on average 12 months for delivery of a new bike. Dealers were selling bikes at list plus. One and two year old used bikes were selling at a price level equal to or above the original MSRP. Everyone wanted HD to ramp up production. So they did.
There has been a constant clamor for HD to accelerate the updating, upgrading of current models. So they did. It appears HD has compressed their product life cycle. Now there's a clamor for the previous versions to be worth more in resale.
Go to the dollar store and buy a small mirror and look into it. The person staring back at you is a member of the market segment that ultimately dictates sale and resale price. Market dynamics dictate you can't have an ample readily available supply of motorcycles updated on a short product cycle that can be resold at price levels near the original MSRP.
Be careful what you wish for. Or as Garemlin said "market and demand dictates everything."
In the 90s most bikers were waiting on average 12 months for delivery of a new bike. Dealers were selling bikes at list plus. One and two year old used bikes were selling at a price level equal to or above the original MSRP. Everyone wanted HD to ramp up production. So they did.
There has been a constant clamor for HD to accelerate the updating, upgrading of current models. So they did. It appears HD has compressed their product life cycle. Now there's a clamor for the previous versions to be worth more in resale.
Go to the dollar store and buy a small mirror and look into it. The person staring back at you is a member of the market segment that ultimately dictates sale and resale price. Market dynamics dictate you can't have an ample readily available supply of motorcycles updated on a short product cycle that can be resold at price levels near the original MSRP.
Be careful what you wish for. Or as Garemlin said "market and demand dictates everything."
#85
08-27-2013, 08:06 AM
Stellar HDF Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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That was an outstanding time to buy used,not like the current jump from '13 to '14.The 08's were transition year models that had the new 6 Gallon Tank and Brembo Brakes that followed in later models.
#86
08-27-2013, 08:53 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
That is going to be the case in a lot of places. We have several 13 models still on the floor. In the first week we sold all of our 14 TKs all but one ultra and a handful of street glides.
To address the complaints about trade value, the whole premise of the retail concept is to buy at wholesale and sell at retail. One of the reasons for trade values being so low is the dealerships that most of you guys probably tout as being the best. The ones who have been dropping their pants on new bikes well before the change of MY. I have lost several customers to other dealers because they put them on deals with ridiculously low profit margins. That does nothing but cheapen the brand and ultimately drives down used prices. Used prices fall, guess what goes with it? As for the complaints about "add ons" when a guy brings in a bike with a ton of extras, a dealer can't base value on that. I can tell you, we don't price them any different than what NADA values that model to be. If you do, you risk forcing that bike to only be available for someone with cash or at least a hefty down payment. Banks will only loan based on the value of the machine. NADA shows a value for a 2013 ultra, not a 2013 ultra with rineharts, chrome wheels, and whatever else. Before you even take your bike in to negotiate a trade, take as much off of it as you can and sell it off. If you ever decide to do custom paint, be careful if you ever plan to trade it in. Try to avoid things that are too taste specific. Case in point, I had a real nice guy come in this weekend looking at trading his 2002 ultra on a new 13 limited. He had some custom paint that was USMC themed. I, of all people can appreciate as I am a 19 year vet of active Army and Guard, but things like that severely limit the potential market for that machine. In his eyes it increased the value of the bike. For us it was a source of worry. It would have to be the exact right buyer for that bike. I have seen mods get buyers' trades moved to the higher end of the trade values but that is generally it. Prepare yourself for it. Check out what used bikes are selling for both privately and at dealers. Realize that trade value will be a few grand back of that. If that is unacceptable to you then sell it privately then use the cash as a down payment. Don't get offended when the dealer is trying to actually make money on a motorcycle. As crazy as that sounds, it's called retail. How much mark up do you think Walmart has in most of their items? I guarantee their profit margin is much higher on the average item if you look at percentage. Do you haggle at the register?
Another thing for you guys considering trading a 2011-2013 model, think about this....IMO it is harder to sell a used 2012 bike than a 2010. That is because of the value. The HDs hold their RETAIL value so well that it doesn't make sense to buy a used 12 model when it's only a few grand away from new. Most dealers realize which is why many of you are getting hit at wholesale for a trade value. They know they will most likely have to sell that used bike well back of retail just to get it out.
I know this post will most likely cause some of you to say nasty things to me, and that's fine. Happens almost daily. I can't tell you how many guys come in wanting retail or better for their trade then turn around and demand to be back of MSRP to boot. Flame away, just trying to show you guys a few different points of view.
To those of you guys who have a dealer pricing with a mark up on the 14s, come see me. We price em at MSRP.
To address the complaints about trade value, the whole premise of the retail concept is to buy at wholesale and sell at retail. One of the reasons for trade values being so low is the dealerships that most of you guys probably tout as being the best. The ones who have been dropping their pants on new bikes well before the change of MY. I have lost several customers to other dealers because they put them on deals with ridiculously low profit margins. That does nothing but cheapen the brand and ultimately drives down used prices. Used prices fall, guess what goes with it? As for the complaints about "add ons" when a guy brings in a bike with a ton of extras, a dealer can't base value on that. I can tell you, we don't price them any different than what NADA values that model to be. If you do, you risk forcing that bike to only be available for someone with cash or at least a hefty down payment. Banks will only loan based on the value of the machine. NADA shows a value for a 2013 ultra, not a 2013 ultra with rineharts, chrome wheels, and whatever else. Before you even take your bike in to negotiate a trade, take as much off of it as you can and sell it off. If you ever decide to do custom paint, be careful if you ever plan to trade it in. Try to avoid things that are too taste specific. Case in point, I had a real nice guy come in this weekend looking at trading his 2002 ultra on a new 13 limited. He had some custom paint that was USMC themed. I, of all people can appreciate as I am a 19 year vet of active Army and Guard, but things like that severely limit the potential market for that machine. In his eyes it increased the value of the bike. For us it was a source of worry. It would have to be the exact right buyer for that bike. I have seen mods get buyers' trades moved to the higher end of the trade values but that is generally it. Prepare yourself for it. Check out what used bikes are selling for both privately and at dealers. Realize that trade value will be a few grand back of that. If that is unacceptable to you then sell it privately then use the cash as a down payment. Don't get offended when the dealer is trying to actually make money on a motorcycle. As crazy as that sounds, it's called retail. How much mark up do you think Walmart has in most of their items? I guarantee their profit margin is much higher on the average item if you look at percentage. Do you haggle at the register?
Another thing for you guys considering trading a 2011-2013 model, think about this....IMO it is harder to sell a used 2012 bike than a 2010. That is because of the value. The HDs hold their RETAIL value so well that it doesn't make sense to buy a used 12 model when it's only a few grand away from new. Most dealers realize which is why many of you are getting hit at wholesale for a trade value. They know they will most likely have to sell that used bike well back of retail just to get it out.
I know this post will most likely cause some of you to say nasty things to me, and that's fine. Happens almost daily. I can't tell you how many guys come in wanting retail or better for their trade then turn around and demand to be back of MSRP to boot. Flame away, just trying to show you guys a few different points of view.
To those of you guys who have a dealer pricing with a mark up on the 14s, come see me. We price em at MSRP.
Good post. When I was looking at used bikes in Fall '10, I was getting discouraged. I slowly worked my way up to considering an 07 or 08, but then figured I might as well buy new. Luckily. in Jan '11 I found a garage
Queen 2003, with 2,090 miles which was a big savings over new. So that makes sense that late model used are hard to sell.
#87
08-27-2013, 10:02 AM
Road Master
IMO buying any new HD is a big rip-off at any dealer. Trading your almost new HD back to them is even worse. Now if your independently wealthy and money is not an issue, then go buy the next new bike every year and toot your horn as loud as you want. OH, BTW, I bet most HD riders today don't hold the title to their bikes, HD bank of America does. Not me, I gave in a long time ago on the pissing contest. Ride what you can afford and be Happy!
If you can afford to lose $ 10/15k it just to have a new toy go for it. You won't arrive at the destination any better or faster than the guy with a bit older model. New is nice but common sense seems to leave the room when a new model arrives.
#90
08-27-2013, 11:30 AM
