Starting in 1st with clutch or neutral with clutch
#11
08-21-2013, 03:35 PM
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hudson, Florida
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#12
08-21-2013, 05:20 PM
Club Member
There is no benefit in using the clutch and certainly not engaging first gear (unless caught after say a stall in traffic). The starter drives directly onto the back of the clutch, then via the chain to the crankshaft and the clutch is a passenger.
In neutral the minimum of gears are turning inside the transmission, so windage losses are at their lowest. Pulling in the clutch achieves nothing, because the clutch is bypassed. Starting in first with the clutch pulled in means the starter is dealing with any clutch drag plus increased windage losses inside the transmission.
In neutral the minimum of gears are turning inside the transmission, so windage losses are at their lowest. Pulling in the clutch achieves nothing, because the clutch is bypassed. Starting in first with the clutch pulled in means the starter is dealing with any clutch drag plus increased windage losses inside the transmission.
#13
08-21-2013, 05:24 PM
Road Warrior
#14
08-21-2013, 05:41 PM
There is no benefit in using the clutch and certainly not engaging first gear (unless caught after say a stall in traffic). The starter drives directly onto the back of the clutch, then via the chain to the crankshaft and the clutch is a passenger.
In neutral the minimum of gears are turning inside the transmission, so windage losses are at their lowest. Pulling in the clutch achieves nothing, because the clutch is bypassed. Starting in first with the clutch pulled in means the starter is dealing with any clutch drag plus increased windage losses inside the transmission.
In neutral the minimum of gears are turning inside the transmission, so windage losses are at their lowest. Pulling in the clutch achieves nothing, because the clutch is bypassed. Starting in first with the clutch pulled in means the starter is dealing with any clutch drag plus increased windage losses inside the transmission.
#15
08-21-2013, 06:50 PM
What "windage" in the transmission? When the clutch is pulled and the tranny in neutral, whatever has the least friction will give, either the clutch pates slide past each other or they don't and the input shaft spins. As long as you aren't moving, no gears are spinning either way so I don't understand the "windage" you are talking about.
#16
08-21-2013, 07:09 PM
Join Date: Jan 2011
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There is no benefit in using the clutch and certainly not engaging first gear (unless caught after say a stall in traffic). The starter drives directly onto the back of the clutch, then via the chain to the crankshaft and the clutch is a passenger.
In neutral the minimum of gears are turning inside the transmission, so windage losses are at their lowest. Pulling in the clutch achieves nothing, because the clutch is bypassed. Starting in first with the clutch pulled in means the starter is dealing with any clutch drag plus increased windage losses inside the transmission.
In neutral the minimum of gears are turning inside the transmission, so windage losses are at their lowest. Pulling in the clutch achieves nothing, because the clutch is bypassed. Starting in first with the clutch pulled in means the starter is dealing with any clutch drag plus increased windage losses inside the transmission.
#17
08-21-2013, 07:14 PM
#19
08-21-2013, 07:59 PM
The lack of understanding of the drive line amazes me. With the transmission in ANY gear, the drive line from the rear wheel to the transmission side of the clutch is locked together. No gear can turn while the bike is stationary. In a constant mesh transmission, all or no gears turn, there is no other way. They all turn when you are moving, none turn when you are not moving. This always being locked together is what makes it possible for the rear wheel to slide (most frequently when downshifting) on slippery surfaces even with the clutch lever fully pulled in.
There is always a liitle drag built into the clutch, primarily because it is a wet clutch. That is described above. For an illustration of drag, PUSH your bike while it is neutral, then push it while in gear and the clutch lever pulled fully in. If the bike has been sitting for a while, you will feel both the effort to "unstick" the clutch plates AND after that, you will feel the added drag (as compared to neutral) of moving the clutch plates past each other. When starting your bike in gear, your starter ALWAYS has to overpower that added drag. When in neutral, the transmission INPUT shaft is free to spin while not connected to any gear. Typically spinning the input shaft is easier than ungluing the clutch and then having the plates spinning past each other. I reserve starting in gear for the rare times I stall the engine on the street and want a quick restart to promote traffic flow.
There is always a liitle drag built into the clutch, primarily because it is a wet clutch. That is described above. For an illustration of drag, PUSH your bike while it is neutral, then push it while in gear and the clutch lever pulled fully in. If the bike has been sitting for a while, you will feel both the effort to "unstick" the clutch plates AND after that, you will feel the added drag (as compared to neutral) of moving the clutch plates past each other. When starting your bike in gear, your starter ALWAYS has to overpower that added drag. When in neutral, the transmission INPUT shaft is free to spin while not connected to any gear. Typically spinning the input shaft is easier than ungluing the clutch and then having the plates spinning past each other. I reserve starting in gear for the rare times I stall the engine on the street and want a quick restart to promote traffic flow.
Whatever your choice, ride safe.
#20
08-21-2013, 11:10 PM
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Yes I know starting in neutral with clutch in is the best way. The conversation started because I was wondering if something was out of adjustment, perhaps clutch, or cable, or etc...My first Harley and I do not remember my other bikes (Hondas) doing that, perhaps they did, I just do not remember. Sometimes hunting for neutral gets crazy, going up to 2nd then down to 1st, back and forth until it finally catches. Sometimes are harder than others. Yeah I know that's what she said...