Ok...after picking up the bike Thursday with the new Fatcat and Ghost pipe, (replacing VH True Duals and Ovals), I've had a chance to put a couple of hundred miles on them. As mentioned in an earlier post, the local HD dealer had a broken dyno, thus the bike bike being there for four days just for pipes and 10k service, so all I got was a down load for the new pipes. First stupid question;

When they say "they'll just have to do a download" does that mean they just did a Stage I download for the new pipes with no use ofmy SERT at all? I know they couldn't tune the pipe with my SERT, but do they download a map from it or is the "download" they mention, "until we get our dyno fixed", the same download you'd get without a race tuner?

The reason I'm asking is because while the bike is running pretty dang good for no tuning, it does feel like it has more than a couple of flat spots, particularly in 3rd gear and at higher RPM's. I'm betting I'm running real lean. As I mentioned earlier, the smooth factor is very obvious, but the more I've ridden the more it almost feels like the pipes have softened the "pull" factor of the bike. It "felt" to me like the bike pulledquite a bit harderfrom 65-85 with duals. I suspect much of this is in my head, cause I do see the revs climb faster, or so it seems, much with less drama,but still can't get past the feeling that the duals were hunkering down a bit more and moving the bike along with more authority. The pipes are a LOT quieter than my true duals with more of a muffled sound. I can't imagine the quiet baffle, I need a little bite with my pipes and feedback

So, I had about 30 minutes yesterday morning and rode over to Piper Performance in North Richland Hills, just around the corner from me in Colleyville. I've heard nothing but good things about Cliff Pipers tuning skills and will be dropping the bike off Tuesday morning for a full tune. I should add the VH Duals had been tuned with the SERT at the Bedford HD and actually were performing quite well.

So I'm eager now to get the bike tuned . After my initial enthusiasm for the new pipe, which is still there by the way, I want to get the maximum out of it. They told me if I dropped it off Tuesday morning around 9am they'd have it bike Thursday afternoon. He takes first come only, and does several bikes per day. It's $295 for a Power Commander tune and $395 for SERT. Anyone ever used Piper for tuning?

Bryan, Phil, if you guys are still playing today, and I get to come by, I'd love you guys to run my SG up the road and give me your impressions.

 

Morning Gliderxxx, I think I know what your talking about as I had mine tuned yesterday with fatcat and quiet baffle and it was really dissapointing. I didn't bring the dyno sheet home with me but the only place that it worked was at low rpm, at 2500 rpm I had around 90 torque. After that it fell flat on it's face at 3000 to 4000 rpm and lost close to 20 torque. The peak results were 98 torque and 102 hp. I tell ya I almost puked after spending a bunch of money on a pipe and retune. I left my bike at the shop and I think I'am just going to put the rineharts back on and get them to reload my old map. The funny part with this pipe is it makes good hp but has horrible mid range. I'am just sick about this because its a beautiful pipe and sounds awsome, but has terrible midrange.

 

So Rideon...you had a full fuel management, (PC3/SERT) tune on your bike? I was really hoping that that was what was giving me the flat spot feeling, (and possibly still is.) You've lost power on your total numbers it appears, but more importantly if you lost 20 ft/lb torque between 3-4 rpm, OUCH! Honestly after my SERT tune and the duals, the bike ONLY felt sluggish a bit out of the hole, but every gear after that was a steady linear pull, where as the Fatcat just keeps hitting flat spots. I have cruised a solid 10 miles at 90 however the other night and have to say it was smooth sailing. I agree the fit and finish and looks are gorgeous, and I likethe sound it too, BUT also very different, even from my old Thunderheader. I'm feeling mixed. In lot's of ways I REALLY like this pipe. In other ways, I'm doing what I said in an earlier post I wasn't doing, "revisiting the true dual" notion. One of the improvements without question is the smoother idle and overall motor manners with the Fatcat. My duals were a bit lumpy at times and I did have some trouble keeping as smooth of an idle. I also got sick of haveing the left side pipe start to rattle with the VH duals. I was constantly tightening or rigging them somehow to not make a racket. I don't know man, now I'm wondering whether or not to put out the $400 bones for a SERT tune on Tuesday.

 

Mine was tuned on the dyno with pc 111 by a very reputable shop. My buddy took his bike home yesterday exactly same build, same builder but with a propipe and you could pretty well lay the dyno sheet over the top of mine with the rineharts from 3000 rpm up. Where he gained was at 2500 rpm with about 6 ft pounds more torque. I just don't know what to think they had it tuned perfectly with the afr ratio spot on, the pipe just doesn't work in the midrange. Maybe it has something to do with the quiet baffle? Like I said the fat cat came on strong at 2500 but sucks in the mid range big time.

 

You're right...getting 90lb torque at 2500 rpm is pretty darn good, but if it gives out on you after that, that sucks. I can't say mine is doing that. It's more of a "feeling" that it isn't pulling as hard, or has the same bite, but again can't say how much of that is due to the sound difference etc. Those things do come into play. The bottom line on yours is that your Rinehart dyno gave better performance than your Fatcat, at least in overall numbers. What kind of torque were you getting at 2500 rpm with the Rineharts?

 

My dyno chart is in my pics, but it looks like about 77 torque at 2500. The stupid thing is my bike ran fine with the rineharts but a guy gets caught up in the this is better and thats better and alls it does is cost ya. I'm hopin I can send the fat cat back because it certainly doesn't do what they claim, too bad because it's a good lookin pipe.

 

rideon

Sorry to here about your dyno run. Did you use the same dyno and was it a 5th gear run like what is in pics? As far as the seat of the pants can you feel it?
Not trying to rub salt in to wound just asking.

 

That's been one of the down sides to the Fatcat pipes, between 3000 and 3500 they all seem to have a dip in the TQ curve, most of the time tuned properly they pull back up after 4000

 

i wont go back to Pipers ever again...had my bike for four weeks....just before surgery itook itdownso's he could do some work as i recouperated...the agreement was for him to redo my SERT...and install the 360 brake and wheels...one excuse after another...several bikes came and went but not mine...the ole "got my 3 best guys on it right now"....i dont do biz that way...you take on a job, do the job...so i went and got my bike along with parts as soon as i could barely walk...no help carryin stuff either...what a putz....you'll be damn lucky to see your bike by ROT....go get it now...take it to Jim @ CycleDyne, have him do your PC and work...he's a nice man who will do what he says....no more Piper for me [:@]

i got invaded by the fatcat bunch this weekend...i hate those pipes...plum un-natural on a bagger...i dont even think they make that much more power ...plus, i make 90ftlb @ 2000 with true duals

 

Interesting thread![sm=headbang.gif]