Its a bit of a joke really isnt it, here we are in 2013, with a motorcycle that has an engine as big as most cars (this side of the pond) and yet we need more power to overtake?

No where is that thread about water cooling...

 

Thanks, that's what I was thinking/hoping. I can see the AC and tuner for the reasons mentioned all the time; I could see decatting for heat (doubt there is much performance to be gained there at this power level). I just wasn't sure if the stock mufflers were all that restrictive compared to the AC.....glad to hear that they're not.

Cheers,
Dave

 

Check out these threads-- https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...hp-torque.html and https://www.hdforums.com/forum/gener...r-exhaust.html.

The conclusion I drew from both of these threads is that the first thing to try was adding just the Stage 1 AC with the Stage 1 download from H-D. I just did it this week and took a long ride Saturday and my seat of the pants Dyno tells me that I have more torque (noticeable) and more horsepower (some) and a little better sound with my stock pipes. I have about 18,000 miles on the pipes and they sounded pretty good to me before the AC and download and sound somewhat better now.

 

The fact of the matter is the heat and restriction is not so much of an issue with the 08 bikes. The newer bikes yes, it's horrible on both counts.

However the bottom line is this. If someone is telling YOU to do a stage1 to YOUR bike, don't listen to them. It's YOUR bike, YOU ride it like YOU ride it, YOU pay for it. YOU do what YOU feel is best for YOU. The hell with everyone else's opinions.

Just my .02 worth...

 

For me, paying $275-300 per horsepower gain is simply not worth the cash. Especially when you only get 3 - 5 HP and that's doing it all. I've had 4 ultra classics and I loved all of them, but looking back the upgrades were NOT worth the $ I paid. I didn't touch my 2012 Ultra except for a set of slip ons and have no plans to do anything further. The Classic models are the most comfortable rides on the market.

 

Exactly. As I said in my post a moment ago. This is what I have just done--a Stage 1 AC and download (no need for a tuner with stock pipes). I see no need (nor benefit) to changing the mufflers at this point. They've "burned in" and sound pretty good already.

 

Around 10hp 10ft/lbs gain is a very realistic average gain for a stage 1 103" with just ac/tuner/slip ons (header is a waste). This can be bought from FuelMoto for about $700 (not here to advertise them, its just a good deal i found). That puts it more around $70/hp gain if my math is correct. Not knocking your opinion, to each his own, but those numbers your throwing out are worst case scenario from my experience. Nobody should expect to pay $1500 for 5hp gain out of a stage 1, thats not normal.

Stock 103 vs 103 w FM ac/tuner/slipons

 

That's great news; it is really confusing reading all the threads on the subject. There are large numbers of posts from people saying that you need to do the exhaust to see any benefit of the Stage I and that you'd be wasting your time leaving the stock exhaust on, then there are a bunch of other people saying the AC is far more restrictive than the exhaust! Confusing as heck!

Based on the dozen or so threads I've read now, I would concur that it SEEMS like the AC is far more restrictive than the exhaust is. The idea that you can "go ahead and do the exhaust" without worrying about a tuner to richen up the mixture but you NEED a tuner if you change the AC lends credibility to that argument. I get the feeling that the cat doesn't create much restriction and the heat that it generates is localized and the engine doesn't run much (if any) hotter. Dyno results (slim pickings for stock motors with one change at a time) seem to indicate less than 1hp is lost to the cat and that a full aftermarket exhaust is worth 2 hp or so on an otherwise stock engine. Obviously, the more you mod the bike, the more that a better exhaust would help....it might make 10hp on a motor that has hotter cams, etc.

Anywho, I can see doing the AC (probably the Big Sucker under the stock cover for me) and a tuner......and POSSIBLY decatting the stock header for heat if it becomes a comfort issue. Other than that, I'll probably leave it alone.

Cheers,
Dave

 

So what do you think I would gain with a Big Sucker and a Power Commander V on my stock 2010 96"er? 3hp? 5hp? 7hp?

Obviously not 10/10 unless the exhaust upgrade does nothing.

Dave

 

One word of caution - if you retain the stock header with catalytic converter, you cannot add fuel with a tuner/PC!!!! you'll cook the converter and it'll be hotter than it already is.

On the other hand if you remove the cat you can add fuel and keep the stock mufflers for a slight increase in sound/peformance/milage w/o even changing the air filter.

FWIW, it's not all about horsepower - stage 1 also gets rid of the lack of throttle response due to lean fuel mixtures. It will be a lot more enjoyable all the time, not just pulling hills 2-up.

Joe