Why do a stage 1
#21
Winner....Winner...Chicken Dinner!!!!!!
If you are doing any touring riding 2 up or loaded with baggage, these things need more power. Factory settings are too lean and restrictive. If you are just cruising around town, then like jeffrey said, if you like it the way it is leave it.
If you are doing any touring riding 2 up or loaded with baggage, these things need more power. Factory settings are too lean and restrictive. If you are just cruising around town, then like jeffrey said, if you like it the way it is leave it.
No where is that thread about water cooling...
#22
Just FYI, the American Customs header is just a de-catted stock header. I would personally remove the cat myself and save $200. Either way if you install a de-catted header and a set of slip ons, you will get less heat and a different exhaust tone. You wont really gain performance. If you want the most performance benefit for cost I would focus on the AC and tuner first.
Doing the AC and tuner makes fine sense. The ac is far more restrictive than the exhaust. You will see most of the stage 1 benefit by putting a free flowing ac on there and tuning it. The stock 2-1-2 header is sufficient for a stage 1 engine anyway. Even if you do end up changing the slip ons I would leave your header (except maybe decat for heat benefit).
Unless you're hell bent on saying "I have true duals" or "I have XXX brand header", the extra $500 for a header that only gives you 1-5hp on a stage 1 engine is a waste IMO.
Doing the AC and tuner makes fine sense. The ac is far more restrictive than the exhaust. You will see most of the stage 1 benefit by putting a free flowing ac on there and tuning it. The stock 2-1-2 header is sufficient for a stage 1 engine anyway. Even if you do end up changing the slip ons I would leave your header (except maybe decat for heat benefit).
Unless you're hell bent on saying "I have true duals" or "I have XXX brand header", the extra $500 for a header that only gives you 1-5hp on a stage 1 engine is a waste IMO.
Thanks, that's what I was thinking/hoping. I can see the AC and tuner for the reasons mentioned all the time; I could see decatting for heat (doubt there is much performance to be gained there at this power level). I just wasn't sure if the stock mufflers were all that restrictive compared to the AC.....glad to hear that they're not.
Cheers,
Dave
#23
I'm gonna leave mine stock for a while yet, I think. What I'd be interested to know is if it makes any sense to do the AC and PC without any exhaust mods (perhaps decat). The exhaust it the most expensive pce of the Stage I puzzle by far and frankly, I don't really care to increase the sound level.
Dave
Dave
The conclusion I drew from both of these threads is that the first thing to try was adding just the Stage 1 AC with the Stage 1 download from H-D. I just did it this week and took a long ride Saturday and my seat of the pants Dyno tells me that I have more torque (noticeable) and more horsepower (some) and a little better sound with my stock pipes. I have about 18,000 miles on the pipes and they sounded pretty good to me before the AC and download and sound somewhat better now.
#24
However the bottom line is this. If someone is telling YOU to do a stage1 to YOUR bike, don't listen to them. It's YOUR bike, YOU ride it like YOU ride it, YOU pay for it. YOU do what YOU feel is best for YOU. The hell with everyone else's opinions.
Just my .02 worth...
#25
For me, paying $275-300 per horsepower gain is simply not worth the cash. Especially when you only get 3 - 5 HP and that's doing it all. I've had 4 ultra classics and I loved all of them, but looking back the upgrades were NOT worth the $ I paid. I didn't touch my 2012 Ultra except for a set of slip ons and have no plans to do anything further. The Classic models are the most comfortable rides on the market.
#26
Exactly. As I said in my post a moment ago. This is what I have just done--a Stage 1 AC and download (no need for a tuner with stock pipes). I see no need (nor benefit) to changing the mufflers at this point. They've "burned in" and sound pretty good already.
Last edited by TKDKurt; 04-01-2013 at 03:05 PM.
#27
For me, paying $275-300 per horsepower gain is simply not worth the cash. Especially when you only get 3 - 5 HP and that's doing it all. I've had 4 ultra classics and I loved all of them, but looking back the upgrades were NOT worth the $ I paid. I didn't touch my 2012 Ultra except for a set of slip ons and have no plans to do anything further. The Classic models are the most comfortable rides on the market.
Stock 103 vs 103 w FM ac/tuner/slipons
#28
That's great news; it is really confusing reading all the threads on the subject. There are large numbers of posts from people saying that you need to do the exhaust to see any benefit of the Stage I and that you'd be wasting your time leaving the stock exhaust on, then there are a bunch of other people saying the AC is far more restrictive than the exhaust! Confusing as heck!
Based on the dozen or so threads I've read now, I would concur that it SEEMS like the AC is far more restrictive than the exhaust is. The idea that you can "go ahead and do the exhaust" without worrying about a tuner to richen up the mixture but you NEED a tuner if you change the AC lends credibility to that argument. I get the feeling that the cat doesn't create much restriction and the heat that it generates is localized and the engine doesn't run much (if any) hotter. Dyno results (slim pickings for stock motors with one change at a time) seem to indicate less than 1hp is lost to the cat and that a full aftermarket exhaust is worth 2 hp or so on an otherwise stock engine. Obviously, the more you mod the bike, the more that a better exhaust would help....it might make 10hp on a motor that has hotter cams, etc.
Anywho, I can see doing the AC (probably the Big Sucker under the stock cover for me) and a tuner......and POSSIBLY decatting the stock header for heat if it becomes a comfort issue. Other than that, I'll probably leave it alone.
Cheers,
Dave
#29
Around 10hp 10ft/lbs gain is a very realistic average gain for a stage 1 103" with just ac/tuner/slip ons (header is a waste). This can be bought from FuelMoto for about $700 (not here to advertise them, its just a good deal i found). That puts it more around $70/hp gain if my math is correct. Not knocking your opinion, to each his own, but those numbers your throwing out are worst case scenario from my experience. Nobody should expect to pay $1500 for 5hp gain out of a stage 1, thats not normal.
Stock 103 vs 103 w FM ac/tuner/slipons
Stock 103 vs 103 w FM ac/tuner/slipons
Obviously not 10/10 unless the exhaust upgrade does nothing.
Dave
#30
One word of caution - if you retain the stock header with catalytic converter, you cannot add fuel with a tuner/PC!!!! you'll cook the converter and it'll be hotter than it already is.
On the other hand if you remove the cat you can add fuel and keep the stock mufflers for a slight increase in sound/peformance/milage w/o even changing the air filter.
FWIW, it's not all about horsepower - stage 1 also gets rid of the lack of throttle response due to lean fuel mixtures. It will be a lot more enjoyable all the time, not just pulling hills 2-up.
Joe
On the other hand if you remove the cat you can add fuel and keep the stock mufflers for a slight increase in sound/peformance/milage w/o even changing the air filter.
FWIW, it's not all about horsepower - stage 1 also gets rid of the lack of throttle response due to lean fuel mixtures. It will be a lot more enjoyable all the time, not just pulling hills 2-up.
Joe