Undoubtedly HDMOCO employs better and smarter engineers than myself.
However, based on the types of noise complaints people have been referring to in the forums,
The noise appears to be possibly caused by mating problems.
Perhaps too tight, wrong angle, too loose, or case deflection.
On the bench and in drawings and by formula they may be perfect, but in real world testing, and after some time for the gears to wear in and parts to mesh, the noise COULD be attributed to the above.
I did NOT say that it was an absolute.
A couple notes from Audels Millwrights and machinist guide 1981
page 148: It is extremely important that the pressure angle be known when gears are mated as all gears that run together must have the same pessure angle. or a web site
http://www.machinedesign.com/BDE/mec...demech1_5.html

page 157: Normally there must be some backlash present in gear drives to provide running clearance. This is necessary as binding of mating gears can result in HEAT GENERATION, NOISE, ABNORMAL WEAR, POSSIBLE OVERLOAD AND /OR FAILURE OF THE DRIVE.

page 160 161, helical cut are good for noise reduction and smoothness, but create higher friction (thus heat) and increased wear (increased wear can translate to more back lash hence more noise as wear inreases)
Info in parenthesis is from other reference sources.
a website
http://www.howstuffworks.com/gear3.htm thrust described below fig 3

In this new 6 speed tranny, hd is using different types of cuts on the various gears.
Different types of gears create their own mating problems noises etc.
In a car or truck etc, these noises aren't as pronounced, because they are farther away from the operator and more sound deadening material between the gears and the operator.
But we don't have that on a bike.
Are these noises going to create a problem with failed trannies, only time will tell.
But like I said before; whining of gears is usually gears meshing too tight, clunking too loose
(backlash). or possibly too much lateral end play. Helical cut gears will tend to shift laterally(sideways) in operation. While the typical spur gear doesn't.
It can also be in the material itself (noise) the hardness or lack of.
lateral play can be bearings, shimming or lack of it, and even in transmission case side wall deflection.
Not saying this IS the problem only a possiblity to consider.
You know , I have never outright flamed anybody in these forums for their knowledge, beliefs or lack of same.
Their's always somebody that will know something I don't and I hope to learn from them.
If I read something I don't under stand I ask a follow up question.
But like I said hdmoco engineers are most likely smarter than me.
Now my wreck happened as I said, my belief is it probably wouldn't have happened, if the bike would have responded as reasonably expected when I applied throttle, I would have continued down the road at an appropriate speed. But I was already committed to completing the pass, when it unexpectedly faltered. This was after three repairs (2 different dealers) had confirmed the bike WAS repaired and working correctly. And this particular time the problem appeared approx 10 or 15 miles per hour UNDER the previous times the problem had appeared and this time was much more severe.
But whatever.....
My apologies this was so long

[quote]ORIGINAL: oley55

TexasRedneck,

yep-per, I'm with ya on this one. It's pretty sad....no matter how long and hard ya polish a t*rd, in the end it'sstill a t*rd.Not meaning anyone is a t*rd, but we are who we are, and not much can be done to change that. If whinning and transferring blame is ChooChoo'sthing, there ain't no amount of discussion or rationaliz

 

I guess my question that keeps coming up in my mind is that your either going up hill of into a steady headwind when you accelerate and find that it doesn't have power. In both of those situations I would think that you would have to downshift as your being in top gear under acceleration puts you out of the motors powerband. While it will gain speed it would do so much slower than if you raised the revs up by dropping a gear and putting the motor in the area that it makes the most power. Having driven manual cars and trucks and bikes for years this seems like a common sense approach to the problem and yet you never mention having tried it. I have been in the situation you have described many times and simply downshifted to get back in the powerband and went on my way.

I'm not trying to be condesending but I'm having a real problem trying to figure out just what could have gone wrong with the bike based on the posting you have made. Good luck in your future choice on a new bike.

 

Well I have to know did you get your estimate back ? If so is the bike totaled ?

 

Got a preliminary estimate but not a final.
We are questioning whether or not the frame is bent at the tour pack extension mountings
or it the mounting u-tube just tweaked.
Probably won't know anyhing til this weekend.
According to the adjuster even if frame is bent the bike will still be under the amount of being
totalled. So it's a wait and see at the moment.
Preliminary with frame is $10890 but with out would be around $7500 to $8500.

 

First off I have an 07 Screamin Eagle Ultra build date Jan. 07 and I don't have any 5th or 6th gear noise, My valve train doesn't clatter, Mine doesn't over heat, and the local dealer is great to deal with (I've bought 5 Harley's from him). Then lastly if your bike has full coverage insurance why do care what the dealer wants to change or what it costs



[quote]ORIGINAL: choochoo


Let's see if I can clear it up for you
11/21/05 bought bike did mufflers, a/c, &stage one same day
ran great til june 2006 then started noticing lack of power on hills.
9/30/06 finally got it to the original dealer he blamed mufflers but never tested
to prove or disprove
replaced injectors
knew was not fixed right in first 30 maybe 40 miles
10/21/06 took to different dealer he also blamed mufflers but never tested
insisted I needed the sert. did it, better but still not right
11/25/06 back to dealer again insisted the mufflers still did not test
HDMOCO said engine under compression rebuild.....warranty
1/24/07 after 200 miles on rebuild bike faltered again.
this time worse than before and about 10 miles lower in speed than any
previous time. To prevent being ran over took the ditch (softer with snow)
I never tried to find a gps someone else did andI responded to him.
said a pilots knee board/ table, map of area,and compass works just fine and a lot cheaper.
Or don't go anyplace in particular, that way you're never loss, you're just someplace.

I posted a copy of an email I sent to invester relations complaing about the lack of QA, dealers that deny something is wrong, or blame things that are not at fault and or have no clue how to fix.
since reading this forum there have been numerous posts of faulty items apparently from when bike left the factory that really should not exist and or should have had a factory recall by now or a technical service bulletin on the correct repair procedure.
for example
1. air temp gauge since 2001 that we know of reads as much as 20 degrees hot
2. 07's having a valve train clatter
3. 07's having noisy transmissions 5th and 6th gear
4. 07's having apparent excess heat
5. 06' & 07's apparently having oil sumping problems.
some have been fixed properly by dealers, other have had excuses
cover up the nose w

 

trying real hard, andsticking to my pledge, no comment here.

[quote]ORIGINAL: choochoo

Undoubtedly HDMOCO employs better and smarter engineers than myself.
However, based on the types of noise complaints people have been referring to in the forums,
The noise appears to be possibly caused by mating problems.
Perhaps too tight, wrong angle, too loose, or case deflection.
On the bench and in drawings and by formula they may be perfect, but in real world testing, and after some time for the gears to wear in and parts to mesh, the noise COULD be attributed to the above.
I did NOT say that it was an absolute.
A couple notes from Audels Millwrights and machinist guide 1981
page 148: It is extremely important that the pressure angle be known when gears are mated as all gears that run together must have the same pessure angle. or a web site
http://www.machinedesign.com/BDE/mec...demech1_5.html

page 157: Normally there must be some backlash present in gear drives to provide running clearance. This is necessary as binding of mating gears can result in HEAT GENERATION, NOISE, ABNORMAL WEAR, POSSIBLE OVERLOAD AND /OR FAILURE OF THE DRIVE.

page 160 161, helical cut are good for noise reduction and smoothness, but create higher friction (thus heat) and increased wear (increased wear can translate to more back lash hence more noise as wear inreases)
Info in parenthesis is from other reference sources.
a website
http://www.howstuffworks.com/gear3.htm thrust described below fig 3

In this new 6 speed tranny, hd is using different types of cuts on the various gears.
Different types of gears create their own mating problems noises etc.
In a car or truck etc, these noises aren't as pronounced, because they are farther away from the operator and more sound deadening material between the gears and the operator.
But we don't have that on a bike.
Are these noises going to create a problem with failed trannies, only time will tell.
But like I said before; whining of gears is usually gears meshing too tight, clunking too loose
(backlash). or possibly too much lateral end play. Helical cut gears will tend to shift laterally(sideways) in operation. While the typical spur gear doesn't.
It can also be in the material itself (noise) the hardness or lack of.
lateral play can be bearings, shimming or lack of it, and even in transmission case side wall deflection.
Not saying this IS the problem only a possiblity to consider.
You know , I have never outright flamed anybody in these forums for their knowledge, beliefs or lack of same.
Their's always somebody that will know something I don't and I hope to learn from them.
If I read something I don't under stand I ask a follow up question.
But like I said hdmoco engineers are most likely smarter than me.
Now my wreck happened as I said, my belief is it probably wouldn't have happened, if the bike would have responded as reasonably expected when I applied throttle, I would have continued down the road at an appropriate speed. But I was already committed to completing the pass, when it unexpectedly faltered. This was after three repairs (2 different dealers) had confirmed the bike WAS repaired and working correctly. And this particular time the problem appeared approx 10 or 15 miles per hour UNDER the previous times the problem had appeared and this time was much more severe.
But whatever.....
My apologies this was so long

[quote]ORIGINAL: oley55

TexasRedneck,

yep-per, I'm with ya on this one. It's pretty sad....no matter how long and hard ya polish a t*rd, in the end it'sstill a t*rd.Not meaning anyone is a t*rd, but we are who we are, and not much can be done to change that. If whinning and transferr

 

yo Chainman, is it true you got heated floor boards on that Super Screamin Eagle? I guess I'll have to go with a green one for Green with envy. Nice scoot for an old guy.

[quote]ORIGINAL: Chainman

First off I have an 07 Screamin Eagle Ultra build date Jan. 07 and I don't have any 5th or 6th gear noise, My valve train doesn't clatter, Mine doesn't over heat, and the local dealer is great to deal with (I've bought 5 Harley's from him). Then lastly if your bike has full coverage insurance why do care what the dealer wants to change or what it costs



[quote]ORIGINAL: choochoo


Let's see if I can clear it up for you
11/21/05 bought bike did mufflers, a/c, &stage one same day
ran great til june 2006 then started noticing lack of power on hills.
9/30/06 finally got it to the original dealer he blamed mufflers but never tested
to prove or disprove
replaced injectors
knew was not fixed right in first 30 maybe 40 miles
10/21/06 took to different dealer he also blamed mufflers but never tested
insisted I needed the sert. did it, better but still not right
11/25/06 back to dealer again insisted the mufflers still did not test
HDMOCO said engine under compression rebuild.....warranty
1/24/07 after 200 miles on rebuild bike faltered again.
this time worse than before and about 10 miles lower in speed than any
previous time. To prevent being ran over took the ditch (softer with snow)
I never tried to find a gps someone else did andI responded to him.
said a pilots knee board/ table, map of area,and compass works just fine and a lot cheaper.
Or don't go anyplace in particular, that way you're never loss, you're just someplace.

I posted a copy of an email I sent to invester relations complaing about the lack of QA, dealers that deny something is wrong, or blame things that are not at fault and or have no clue how to fix.
since reading this forum there have been numerous posts of faulty items apparently from when bike left the factory that really should not exist and or should have had a factory recall by now or a technical service bulletin on the correct repair procedure.
for example
1. air temp gauge since 2001 that we know of reads as much as 20 degrees hot
2. 07's having a valve train clatter
3. 07's having noisy transmissions 5th and 6th gear
4. 07's h

 

Never said ALL 07's etc are experiencing those problems or that all will.
Only made a list of the things that various people here HAVE COMPLAINED of.
Because I like honesty with my insurance company.
If it was NOT damaged in the wreck then they should NOT have to pay for it!
Maybe some other people don't have any qualms about honesty.
And I believe the dealer is being paid for honesty and to confirm what all needs replaced
and confirm it was damaged in the wreck.
If he's not sure, then he should make an attempt to determine that, if it can be done.
Not just blindly charge the insurance company, because it is the insurance company.
Because in the end WE (collectively) all pay for it in higher insurance premiums!
[quote]ORIGINAL: Chainman

First off I have an 07 Screamin Eagle Ultra build date Jan. 07 and I don't have any 5th or 6th gear noise, My valve train doesn't clatter, Mine doesn't over heat, and the local dealer is great to deal with (I've bought 5 Harley's from him). Then lastly if your bike has full coverage insurance why do care what the dealer wants to change or what it costs



[quote]ORIGINAL: choochoo


Let's see if I can clear it up for you
11/21/05 bought bike did mufflers, a/c, &stage one same day
ran great til june 2006 then started noticing lack of power on hills.
9/30/06 finally got it to the original dealer he blamed mufflers but never tested
to prove or disprove
replaced injectors
knew was not fixed right in first 30 maybe 40 miles
10/21/06 took to different dealer he also blamed mufflers but never tested
insisted I needed the sert. did it, better but still not right
11/25/06 back to dealer again insisted the mufflers still did not test
HDMOCO said engine under compression rebuild.....warranty
1/24/07 after 200 miles on rebuild bike faltered again.
this time worse than before and about 10 miles lower in speed than any
previous time. To prevent being ran over took the ditch (softer with snow)
I never tried to find a gps someone else did andI responded to him.
said a pilots knee board/ table, map of area,and compass works just fine and a lot cheaper.
Or don't go anyplace in particular, that way you're never loss, you're just someplace.

I posted a copy of an email I sent to invester relations complaing about the lack of QA, dealers that deny something is wro

 

Why do I keep clicking on this thread, its becoming a long boring novel.[:'(]

 

I'd have to say that when the peg or something caught and flipped the bike over, would definetly be enough to bend or tweak the frame.