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Tuners - conflicting recommendations

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  #11  
Old 06-27-2012 | 09:12 AM
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TUCCI
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Its true about Fuel Moto, Jamie put a map on my PCV and aside from needing to retard some of the timing tables to decrease my pinging and add some fuel in the idle category to decrease decel popping the overall map is quit effective and see no reason to modify it. Until I can put an AT on it in the future its as good as its getting.....by the way his map is so close, I got 42 mpg ....pretty good map i'd say.
 
  #12  
Old 06-27-2012 | 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Toliverpeterson
The Power Vision is also on my radar. It does seem like a good option. Does it refine it's maps from data collected by riding the bike?
If you leave it connected, you can log data while riding, then download this data to your PC and analyze it using their software application. Then, based on the log data, you can make changes to the map, reload onto your bike, and do some more logging to evaluate the impact of your changes.

Or, you can use the Fuel Moto tune and ride. No need to have the PV unit mounted to the bike. It depends how much you want to get into tuning and optimize performance/mileage/heat etc. for your bike. If you read the PV thread in the foum, you will see that there are some folks who are really into it, and you can learn a lot from their postings. On the other hand there are people like me who put in a tune based on the Stage One changes we made, and the butt dyno and fuel mileage come out pretty good. If I spent a lot of time getting into my tune I might get a little more out of the bike but I'm satisfied with where I am. If I make changes to my bike in the future, I can hook up the PV and change the tune.

I like the PV, it is easy to use, doesn't have to be on the bike permanently, and can let you change a wide range of variables. Fuel Moto provided a nicely priced package and good support.
 
  #13  
Old 06-27-2012 | 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Toliverpeterson
The Power Vision is also on my radar. It does seem like a good option. Does it refine it's maps from data collected by riding the bike?
not by itself, you have to log runs and then import it into some software on your computer to fine tune it.
 
  #14  
Old 06-27-2012 | 10:18 AM
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stevemucha1
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Power Vision. I have one on my '10 Street Glide and it really woke the engine up. I used the map supplied by Fuel Moto, runs great, no popping, alot more power. Two friends also recently bought the Power Vision and are very happy. One has a brand new SE Street Glide and that thing is a beast now with the tune and new pipes!
 
  #15  
Old 06-27-2012 | 10:21 AM
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Power Vision form Fuel Moto!!
 
  #16  
Old 06-27-2012 | 11:26 AM
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I have had the PC-V on my bike for almost 4 years now with zero issues. I got it from Fuelmoto and the tune was spot on. I just helped a friend install a powervision on his heritage (another Fuelmoto package) and it was super easy and again the tune was spot on. If I was doing it today I would definitely go the Fuelmoto route with the powervision.
 
  #17  
Old 06-27-2012 | 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Toliverpeterson
Super Tuner from the HD with Dyno - dealers say it's the only way to go, any dealer can work on it. Dyno is the only correct way to set it up. They said the PCV piggy back doesn't work well with drive by wire on the new bike.
They will say that because they make a hefty profit from the hardware sale, then charge you more for a dyno tune. SEPST with a dyno-tune is one option that will work fine if the dealer has a good human tuner on its service staff. That's not a given, so beware. The total cost of tuner plus dyno-tune will likely be ~$800, so it might be argued that a more expensive auto-tuner (PCV-AT, T'Max, etc.) might be a better option, especially if you plan on future mods.

Super Tuner from non Dyno dealer - its the only way to go.. Drive it, re download and your ready to go. Dyno not necessary.
If by "download" they mean the HD Stage 1 download you don't need a tuner to install it. However, at ~$150 you won't get much, mostly some minor changes to ignition timing. IMO this is the cheapest but least-effective option.

Fuel Moto. PCV I can save some bucks with the Fuel Moto package that I would install, they seem very competent. but the others have made me nervous about the piggy back programming approach. And nobody local uses PCV.
The PCV will work fine on an airflow-based bike like yours, despite claims by makers of other tuners and their loyal flocks that it won't. It is a cost-effective option if you buy from Fuel Moto who will provide an accurate map for your application, and you can add Auto-Tune later if you want. Even though I don't currently use the PCV I still think it is the best Stage 1 tuner option for most riders.

ThunderMax -spoke to them at Laconia Bike Week. Auto tune on the fly makes sense, but it's by far the most expensive option. He suggested a Dyno is a tough thing on the motor.
The concept of the T-Max is very good, but I doubt how well it works in practice. For one thing it has no knock-sensing capabilities. A friend just bought one and when I mentioned this limitation prior to purchase he said "I don't need that." Now he has it installed, is having detonation and other problems, and is lamenting his decision. He's also having other issues that Zippers apparently can't address, and forums he's been reading indicate there are a number of T'Max owners who aren't happy with the glitches and Zippers' tech support. I would research this thoroughly before dropping $989 (MSRP) on one.

The Rev Perf. EMS tuner is similar and works by sending your stock ECM to RP for modification. You will get back an ECM that will run closed-loop with provided wideband O2 sensors. The downside is that it costs ~$800 and has no tuning capability, so you can't tweak it any any way (AFAIK).

Are any of these choices bad choices?
I don't think there are any "bad" choices--except maybe the HD download, IED's, or some of the other inexpensive devices--and all that you've mentioned could be good choices in some situations. For example if you insist on a dyno-tune and your dealer or indy prefers Brand X tuner, buy a Brand X tuner. If you don't want to hassle or spend extra money on a dyno-tune I would buy either a PCV or Power Vision from Fuel Moto, who will provide a good map or tune for no extra cost. BTW they also sell T'max, EMS, and probably others. Call and give them your setup and expectations and they'll steer you in the right direction.

Now, the Power Vision. I bought one over a year ago after running the PC-III and PCV-AT for three years before that, and have been working with it ever since, also becoming active in the PV sticky thread over in the ECM/Tuner section. The PV is a great programming tool if you like to tweak, or think you might like to some day, but you don't have to be a tuning geek to buy one. Buy from Fuel Moto and you'll get a good tune from the get-go with no compelling need to tweak it. I retained my AT-100 (Auto-Tune kit) from my PCV days and have been tuning with it with great success.

If you want a flash-based tuner it has some virtues that IMO put it above the competition. First, the small display unit will datalog, store tunes (six in all), and provide gauges for many ECM parameters (e.g., TP, KPA, ET, etc.) and calculated functions (e.g., instant and average gas mileage, fuel used, distance traveled, etc.). Thus, you don't need to haul a laptop computer with you while you ride to do datalogging, but the display unit never needs to be attached to the bike unless you want it to be. I have mine attached to the handlebars so I can monitor ECM and other functions, but a local friend who has one just flashed the Fuel Moto tune and keeps the unit is his saddlebags. Different strokes.

Like all other flash-based tuners (TTS and SEPST) you cannot tune the entire operating range with the stock NB O2 sensors since much of that range is outside their physical capabilities, despite claims by the others they can tune that area and "get it close." OTOH unlike other flash-based tuners you can add the AT-100 with wideband O2 sensors and tune in open-loop, which I've been doing and works very well indeed. I fully expect DynoJet to introduce a true auto-tuning accessory in the future that uses wideband O2 sensors with the stock ECM, but that's probably months down the road. IOW, it's a product that is continually evolving.

There are lots of options, but if you want a simple plug-and-play solution I would suggest buying a PCV from Fuel Moto. I obviously like the PV too, as it is very easy to install and flash the stored tune to the ECM, but it costs $200 more than the PCV and I doubt that many riders will ever use its considerable array of features.
 

Last edited by iclick; 06-27-2012 at 11:53 AM.
  #18  
Old 06-27-2012 | 12:01 PM
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What "I Click" said and +1 on any tuner choice from Jamie at Fuel Moto. its the easiest and least expensive way to get some additional performance. Call Fuel Moto and tell them what you want to gain, they can and will give you a couple of options and prices and reasons why they recommend this over that. Make your choice and when it arrives plug and play and your set with most of the Dyno jet products (PCV or Power Vision), V & H etc.

Ive used the PCIII, PCV , Fuel Pak , SERT and now the Power Vision and Im most happy with the ease of the Power Vision. Its what I recommend to all my friends. Flash tuner, easy use, ability to data log and edit tunes with additional sog=ftware, Code reader and gauges, and you can license it to use on a 2nd bike now.

Im also looking forward to see if they can come up and make available some of the ideas for changes to the Power Vision. There may be a future firmware / software upgrade to allow the Power Vision to actually make changes to MAPs on it with out having to download to the PC and make changes on the Win PV software this feature would make the data logging and fine tuning of the base MAP very easy.
 
  #19  
Old 06-27-2012 | 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Pagan48
I've read as many posts as I can find on this subject (must be in the 100's) and I'm going with the FuelMoto Power Vision. It seems that most (I said MOST) dealers won't tune your bike outside the EPA limits so it will still run too lean. The guys at Fuel Moto are very knowledgeable and great to deal with. Just waiting on the $ to do mine. Oh, and Fuel Moto will also give you new maps as needed if you do any other changes and won't charge you for them should you go with them. Just my .02 cents. YMMV.
if you live in Florida and don't give Doc's Performance Tuning any consideration you should , no one tunes a bike as good as Doc
 
  #20  
Old 06-27-2012 | 01:52 PM
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Thundermax is a complete ECU replacement. It also requires older pre-2009 O2 sensor bungs and eliminates many of your ECU's stock features like knock sensors and EITMS...of course their arguement if your motor is properly tuned, you won't need it. Another one I really like was Precision EMS. Unfortunately, they told me that they will probably NEVER work with 2012+ models.

I kind of like the Power Vision - if I understand correctly, you can even do "some" autotuning with the stock narrowband sensors...although I'm not sure how much or how effective it is.
 

Last edited by blarg; 06-27-2012 at 01:55 PM.


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