I have a 2011 Road Glide Ultra with the 103" engine. In order to reduce the heat generated by the cats in the cross-over in the stock header, I replace it with the Jackpot stainless steel 2-1-2 header. Using the stock O2 sensors, I put the stock mufflers back on the bike. The bike ran great without messing with the ECU. The sound is better, it is a tad louder than stock, but not as loud as an after market muffler. I rode out to Sturgis and back last summer with that set-up and did not notice any problems with pinging or over-lean running. In fact it ran so well, that I replace the stock air cleaner with the Kuyakin K&N set up. I am still running it without doing anything to the ECU, just using the closed loop O2 sensors. I ride with a three others with the same engine, all of them have after-market exhaust systems, (Vance & Hines or Reinhart) and they have either the SE Race Tuner, or a Power Commander, and all of them pop on deceleration, and sometimes on the 1 - 2 shift. My bike does no worse! It sounds great, gives me mid 40's mpg, sometimes 50+.

Now, my question is, couldI running too lean and not know it? Should I bother to have some sort of fuel managment system installed? Is it better to bypass the OEM unit with a piggyback like the Power Commander? Or is the programmable SERT the better module?

Thanks for any and all input.

John Jackson
Riding year-round in CT

 

You are going to have to look at the plugs to see if your running too lean. If they are white and chalky looking then it's too lean.

 

Hey John,

Don't worry about the plugs, plug reading is a thing of the past like carbs and leaded fuel. Modern efi systems and fuel additive packages make all plugs look like the "lean" of the 70's.



the danger you need to be aware of would be pre-ignition ( pinging) which sounds like pebbles ratting in a coffee can and would happen under heavy load like quick accel or up a hill.

If you are not experiencing pinging. Then signs are that everything is fine.

If you are experiencing pinging then you should address it, within bounds the ECM can sense pinging and will retard ignition timing in an attempt to control it, the retarded timing will reduce power

I agree with you about the "tuners", Pals of mine who use them seem to have more problems with drivability and poor MPG--- we have emissions testing here and they also fail emissions and have to fiddle around more to pass the test and then to restore settings etc etc.

My experience: 2009 FLHTC completely stock pinged under certain repeatable circumstances ( up 6% grade at 2800~3200 rpm).
I installed nightrider.com XIEDS for about $115, they plug into the o2 sensor and under most conditions fool the ecm into providing slightly more fuel to the air mixture.

from there I was able to put on my hi flow air cleaner and exhaust of choice.

operation is good, and mpg has dropped to avg 43 from 44, so I'm ok with that.

Many riders have done exactly what you have and the ECM has been able to adapt, mine was borderline and the XIEDS gave me a cushion.

Mike

 

You should be fine with the stock mufflers on. You should be able to easily change the air filter OR the mufflers, if you do both you should probably consider a dealer flash, VIED's or a tuner, they all have different advantages and disadvantages. As far as reading the plugs on a new bike, not a chance to tell anything there unless there is something drastically wrong. Plus, the only proper way to do that is to start with fresh plugs, operate at the RPM range you wish to test in, pull the clutch, shut it down and remove and read the plugs. Then, if you want to do it again, you should have new plugs to start over. Worked fairly good in the old days to dial something in closer, but with new technology, unless there is something drastically wrong, you really aren't reading much .......

 

I'm also considering the vied or which ever version NightRider recommends for my bike. I'm not sure there would be any benefit. Other then some popping between shifts when I'm hammering or during deceleration after winding her up she runs pretty good and pings on very rare occasions when it was very hot out and just when moving from a dead stop. I have a 2011 SG with the following:

2011 HD Streetglide Jackppot 2-1-2
Headpipe Ceramic
Power Vision with Jamies map for pipes and intake
Jackpot 3.5 STRAIGHT CUT Mufflers
Fuel moto Stage 1 Air Kit

Other then the above it's all stock. I'm not sure if the map that Fuel Moto provided in the PV changes the stock fuel mixture, Any advise would be much appreciated.

 

No need for the vied when you have the PV. Just put a little time into fine tuning our calibration.

 

Thanks for schooling me, $100 stays in my pocket.
I would like to make it self tuning, I read somewhere that there is another component that works with the PV that dials the optimum fuel mixture automatically based on the data it collects during use. It sounds like I could avoid the dyno tune and get simular results if there is a self tuning system I could attach to my PV, if you know what I'm referring to I would appreciate your wisdom.

 

You don't even need that. You have what you need already. The PV can use the existing narrow band O2 sensors to collect information and then refine your VE's (Volumetric Efficiency) so that what is stored in the calibration matches what your engine needs. Jaime gets them close, but each bike is a bit different. The only constraint with using the stock O2 sensors is that they only work in a narrow range around 14.6 AFR. As such, you only "tune" your calibration in a range of around <3500 rpm and <70KPa manifold pressure - this is where we ride 90% of time anyway. The PV does allow for connecting wide band sensors and then collecting across your entire range and think this is what you're thinking of.

Also, you can edit your existing tune to modify items like the AFR anytime you'd like. There is a very long thread on in the below area that you should start reading through. Some of the guys even have documentation posted to get your started.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-injection-55/

Keep mind this isn't "self tuning" on the fly, but it does let you ride your bike, collect data, and then use that data to fine tune your calibration. I think you'll be happy with the results and satisfied that you did it yourself.

 

Wow, allot of infomation, I don't know what you do in life but it sure sounds like you have spent quite a bit of time around the PV. It looks like I need to educate myself and starting with that thread you provided seems to be as good a place as any. Thanks so much for your time to point me in the right direction it is very much appreciated.