Yet another Ohlins 3-3 experience
#21
02-29-2012, 10:15 AM
Due to the way I see things, I could not just go with throwing in a set of 25mm Ohlins inside of a pair of forks. When I was manufacturing the 20mm cartridge system, they were one of the best suspension products out there as was our friends from Traxxion Dynamics.
The problem is the world just does not sand still. When we started testing the 30mm Ohlins with Danny Eslick using the Geico Powersports 600 bike. The rest was history and I know I had to do something with this for Harleys. In the sport bike crowd, they sell more than a 1,000 a year, and is the must have suspension upgrade. I bought a set and put them in my own 49mm 2005 Dyna MidGlide. I rode and tested and than know that we need this! A few members on this forum have them in their Dynas.
What is needed to make this work in a bagger:
Because of the very poor and dangerous design of the Harley top triple tree in dressers, they use a slip system with a bolt to help keep the forks from falling out. There is no way that this will keep the forks stable.
Prove this to yourself: in a parking lot situation where the surface is smooth and debris free, go about 2 MPH than make a 45º turn and lock up your brakes with your feet out to catch yourself when the bike comes to a full stop. Look and feel the forks deflect. Now what do you think would happen when you are moving at speed or in a corner. The photo below is what I am thinking about.
Most motorcycles have a triple tree design that clamps around the forks like the picture below for strength and stability:
My solution is to make:
* A billet aluminum 6061 T-6 top tree with two each 5/16" clamp bolts per side. This will eliminate the aforementioned deflection. I had made a prototype welded steel top tree to test several years ago to test this theory with positive results.
* A cast and heat treated 4140 chrome moly bottom tree and welded hollow 4140 steering stem. The casting has been designed to accept an inverted fork as well with additional machining. The reason why a new bottom tree is needed is because of need for a 49mm fork tube.
Not cheep to change but I am not done there.
Due the the inside clearance needed for the Ohlins 30mm cartridges, a 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tube is just not big enough to insert the cartridge. I secured a source of 49mm fork tubes that have a wall thickness of 0.160". OEM 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tubes have a wall thickness of 0.165". Due to a thing call "cross section", the larger diameter will deflect less than a smaller diameter. The less your forks deflect the easier they slide up and down reducing stiction (a form of friction) and your suspension works better.
A new set of sliders are needed with new fender adapters so the fork is a direct bolt up. All the rest of the pars such as fender, calipers, rotors and wheel are all reused.
The final price is as yet unknown but I am sure it will be north of $2,500 for the complete fork package (I believe) including triple trees. This is a major upgrade in safety, handling and comfort.
Electronic adjustable suspension is forthcoming.
Status: I am reviewing some minor changes on relief radius's on the 3-D drawing before the bottom triple tree mould is made. For your information, a mould and 3-D drawing costs around $10K before the very first part comes out of the mould. I have to pay this up front, those are the reality's of manufacturing.
Conclusion: Is this modification for everyone. Of course not, only for those who can afford them. This upgrade is the best front FL suspension available on earth until the nest big thing. There is no comparison between any HD front fork solution with the exception of quality inverted forks.
The problem is the world just does not sand still. When we started testing the 30mm Ohlins with Danny Eslick using the Geico Powersports 600 bike. The rest was history and I know I had to do something with this for Harleys. In the sport bike crowd, they sell more than a 1,000 a year, and is the must have suspension upgrade. I bought a set and put them in my own 49mm 2005 Dyna MidGlide. I rode and tested and than know that we need this! A few members on this forum have them in their Dynas.
What is needed to make this work in a bagger:
Because of the very poor and dangerous design of the Harley top triple tree in dressers, they use a slip system with a bolt to help keep the forks from falling out. There is no way that this will keep the forks stable.
Prove this to yourself: in a parking lot situation where the surface is smooth and debris free, go about 2 MPH than make a 45º turn and lock up your brakes with your feet out to catch yourself when the bike comes to a full stop. Look and feel the forks deflect. Now what do you think would happen when you are moving at speed or in a corner. The photo below is what I am thinking about.
Most motorcycles have a triple tree design that clamps around the forks like the picture below for strength and stability:
My solution is to make:
* A billet aluminum 6061 T-6 top tree with two each 5/16" clamp bolts per side. This will eliminate the aforementioned deflection. I had made a prototype welded steel top tree to test several years ago to test this theory with positive results.
* A cast and heat treated 4140 chrome moly bottom tree and welded hollow 4140 steering stem. The casting has been designed to accept an inverted fork as well with additional machining. The reason why a new bottom tree is needed is because of need for a 49mm fork tube.
Not cheep to change but I am not done there.
Due the the inside clearance needed for the Ohlins 30mm cartridges, a 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tube is just not big enough to insert the cartridge. I secured a source of 49mm fork tubes that have a wall thickness of 0.160". OEM 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tubes have a wall thickness of 0.165". Due to a thing call "cross section", the larger diameter will deflect less than a smaller diameter. The less your forks deflect the easier they slide up and down reducing stiction (a form of friction) and your suspension works better.
A new set of sliders are needed with new fender adapters so the fork is a direct bolt up. All the rest of the pars such as fender, calipers, rotors and wheel are all reused.
The final price is as yet unknown but I am sure it will be north of $2,500 for the complete fork package (I believe) including triple trees. This is a major upgrade in safety, handling and comfort.
Electronic adjustable suspension is forthcoming.
Status: I am reviewing some minor changes on relief radius's on the 3-D drawing before the bottom triple tree mould is made. For your information, a mould and 3-D drawing costs around $10K before the very first part comes out of the mould. I have to pay this up front, those are the reality's of manufacturing.
Conclusion: Is this modification for everyone. Of course not, only for those who can afford them. This upgrade is the best front FL suspension available on earth until the nest big thing. There is no comparison between any HD front fork solution with the exception of quality inverted forks.
#22
02-29-2012, 12:11 PM
Due to the way I see things, I could not just go with throwing in a set of 25mm Ohlins inside of a pair of forks. When I was manufacturing the 20mm cartridge system, they were one of the best suspension products out there as was our friends from Traxxion Dynamics.
The problem is the world just does not sand still. When we started testing the 30mm Ohlins with Danny Eslick using the Geico Powersports 600 bike. The rest was history and I know I had to do something with this for Harleys. In the sport bike crowd, they sell more than a 1,000 a year, and is the must have suspension upgrade. I bought a set and put them in my own 49mm 2005 Dyna MidGlide. I rode and tested and than know that we need this! A few members on this forum have them in their Dynas.
What is needed to make this work in a bagger:
Because of the very poor and dangerous design of the Harley top triple tree in dressers, they use a slip system with a bolt to help keep the forks from falling out. There is no way that this will keep the forks stable.
Prove this to yourself: in a parking lot situation where the surface is smooth and debris free, go about 2 MPH than make a 45º turn and lock up your brakes with your feet out to catch yourself when the bike comes to a full stop. Look and feel the forks deflect. Now what do you think would happen when you are moving at speed or in a corner. The photo below is what I am thinking about.
Most motorcycles have a triple tree design that clamps around the forks like the picture below for strength and stability:
My solution is to make:
* A billet aluminum 6061 T-6 top tree with two each 5/16" clamp bolts per side. This will eliminate the aforementioned deflection. I had made a prototype welded steel top tree to test several years ago to test this theory with positive results.
* A cast and heat treated 4140 chrome moly bottom tree and welded hollow 4140 steering stem. The casting has been designed to accept an inverted fork as well with additional machining. The reason why a new bottom tree is needed is because of need for a 49mm fork tube.
Not cheep to change but I am not done there.
Due the the inside clearance needed for the Ohlins 30mm cartridges, a 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tube is just not big enough to insert the cartridge. I secured a source of 49mm fork tubes that have a wall thickness of 0.160". OEM 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tubes have a wall thickness of 0.165". Due to a thing call "cross section", the larger diameter will deflect less than a smaller diameter. The less your forks deflect the easier they slide up and down reducing stiction (a form of friction) and your suspension works better.
A new set of sliders are needed with new fender adapters so the fork is a direct bolt up. All the rest of the pars such as fender, calipers, rotors and wheel are all reused.
The final price is as yet unknown but I am sure it will be north of $2,500 for the complete fork package (I believe) including triple trees. This is a major upgrade in safety, handling and comfort.
Electronic adjustable suspension is forthcoming.
Status: I am reviewing some minor changes on relief radius's on the 3-D drawing before the bottom triple tree mould is made. For your information, a mould and 3-D drawing costs around $10K before the very first part comes out of the mould. I have to pay this up front, those are the reality's of manufacturing.
Conclusion: Is this modification for everyone. Of course not, only for those who can afford them. This upgrade is the best front FL suspension available on earth until the nest big thing. There is no comparison between any HD front fork solution with the exception of quality inverted forks.
The problem is the world just does not sand still. When we started testing the 30mm Ohlins with Danny Eslick using the Geico Powersports 600 bike. The rest was history and I know I had to do something with this for Harleys. In the sport bike crowd, they sell more than a 1,000 a year, and is the must have suspension upgrade. I bought a set and put them in my own 49mm 2005 Dyna MidGlide. I rode and tested and than know that we need this! A few members on this forum have them in their Dynas.
What is needed to make this work in a bagger:
Because of the very poor and dangerous design of the Harley top triple tree in dressers, they use a slip system with a bolt to help keep the forks from falling out. There is no way that this will keep the forks stable.
Prove this to yourself: in a parking lot situation where the surface is smooth and debris free, go about 2 MPH than make a 45º turn and lock up your brakes with your feet out to catch yourself when the bike comes to a full stop. Look and feel the forks deflect. Now what do you think would happen when you are moving at speed or in a corner. The photo below is what I am thinking about.
Most motorcycles have a triple tree design that clamps around the forks like the picture below for strength and stability:
My solution is to make:
* A billet aluminum 6061 T-6 top tree with two each 5/16" clamp bolts per side. This will eliminate the aforementioned deflection. I had made a prototype welded steel top tree to test several years ago to test this theory with positive results.
* A cast and heat treated 4140 chrome moly bottom tree and welded hollow 4140 steering stem. The casting has been designed to accept an inverted fork as well with additional machining. The reason why a new bottom tree is needed is because of need for a 49mm fork tube.
Not cheep to change but I am not done there.
Due the the inside clearance needed for the Ohlins 30mm cartridges, a 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tube is just not big enough to insert the cartridge. I secured a source of 49mm fork tubes that have a wall thickness of 0.160". OEM 1 5/8" (AKA 41mm) fork tubes have a wall thickness of 0.165". Due to a thing call "cross section", the larger diameter will deflect less than a smaller diameter. The less your forks deflect the easier they slide up and down reducing stiction (a form of friction) and your suspension works better.
A new set of sliders are needed with new fender adapters so the fork is a direct bolt up. All the rest of the pars such as fender, calipers, rotors and wheel are all reused.
The final price is as yet unknown but I am sure it will be north of $2,500 for the complete fork package (I believe) including triple trees. This is a major upgrade in safety, handling and comfort.
Electronic adjustable suspension is forthcoming.
Status: I am reviewing some minor changes on relief radius's on the 3-D drawing before the bottom triple tree mould is made. For your information, a mould and 3-D drawing costs around $10K before the very first part comes out of the mould. I have to pay this up front, those are the reality's of manufacturing.
Conclusion: Is this modification for everyone. Of course not, only for those who can afford them. This upgrade is the best front FL suspension available on earth until the nest big thing. There is no comparison between any HD front fork solution with the exception of quality inverted forks.
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