Just ordered the TCB braking System
#52
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I installed one on my RKC after a situation I had in a panic stop that had the rear of the bike kicked out with the wheel locked when it shouldn't have. Most of you that have ridden know that if you're sideways when that wheels starts rolling again you had better be ready as it is a recipe for a high side. Fortunately I was prepared and got the bike slowed down enough where the affect wasn't so violent.
I did some testing prior to and after installation last year and this is what I found:
Without TCB:
50 mph braking distance rear only 195 feet-wheel skid
50 mph braking distance with front and rear 175 feet-wheel skid
Note: Rear wheel locks if too much pressure applied!
With TCB
50 mph braking distance rear only 185 feet-no wheel skid
50 mph braking distance with front and rear 155 feet-no wheel skid
What this product did for me was to absorb the initial shock of the pedal stab and allow me to modulate the rear brake better, to keep it rolling and reduce skidding. I did dot install it on the front as I never had a problem skidding the front wheel.
I can't believe I forgot to post this last year but there it is. Will it help you? If you have a heavy brake foot and use both brakes like I do it might. After installation the feel of the brake takes a little getting used to but if you're having wheel locking issues this may help. You can still lock the rear wheel if enough pressure is applied and you don't lose pedal feel like you do when you have air in the line. Give it a try, it's cheap and it might help you.
After having my RKC sideways, in traffic in DFW while executing a panic stop due to an idiot in the middle lane braking from highway speed of about 65 m.p.h. to near 30 m.p.h. to try and cut across three lanes of traffic to the exit. After this incident, I resolved to find something to assist with the rear brakes on this bike. I have ridden various types of bikes from sport racers to dirt bikes for over 40 years and I attribute my ability to recover the machine to the skills that I learned and practiced but I think it would be foolish to depend on that every time.............
Last edited by Juan L; 04-03-2014 at 07:30 AM.
#53
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As others have pointed out, if the rear does lock up you need to keep it locked. When the rear locks up it has a tendency to slide one way or the other. As soon as the wheel starts moving again the rear wheel instantly falls back in line with the front tire. The massive shift in energy can cause the rider to be tossed from the bike....it's what we refer to as a high side.
#54
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The key to stopping in minimum distance is MODULATING the brake. Finding just the right pressure for being right next to a skid. Depending on pad hardness and rotor condition, the pedal/lever movement to modulate the brakes might be just a few hundredths of an inch being the difference between a controlled stop or a skid. The TBS is a "calibrated air bubble" and all it does is allow for more pedal/lever movement in the hunt for the correct pressure. The calibrated bubble will expand the pedal/lever movement to perhaps a quarter inch of movement making the brakes SEEM less prone to lock up. For a given set of brakes and road conditon, X amount of pressure will lock the brake. The same amount of PRESSURE on the lever/pedal (not distance of movement) required to lock the brake will still lock the brake. With this gadget you will need to squeeze the lever, push the pedal a bit farther to get that pressure, but once you do, you will still skid. If you like the idea of having the hunt for the ideal pressure spread over a greater pedal/lever movement, this is for you. If you "stab" the brakes when surprised, you will still skid. There is no magic in any of this. When your brakes demand more traction than your tire can deliver, you will skid, end of story. Without real ABS, it is still up to YOU to apply the correct pressure. This might make it a little easier, or it might not.
#55
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I have also owned a BMW with ABS, although to be frank I never managed to wake it up! Also BMWs generally come with softer tyres than stock Harleys. I have never used stock Harley tyres as replacements, preferring the softer and grippier tyres available from other tyre brands. The TCB sounds interesting, so I look forward to hearing more experiences with them.
#56
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A lot of riders apply the rear brake incorrectly. The rear brake shouldn't be pushed by the rider....what I mean is that your foot should be on the pedal, but the brake should not be pushed. The momentum of your body shift from the front brake is more than enough pressure for the rear brake.
if you hit the rear brake first, the fulcrum point is closer to the rear tire, then you hit the front brake and instead of trying to pivot the bike from the front wheel, it helps to 'plant' the whole bike, putting more weight on the rear and less susceptible to skid.
#57
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I have it on the rear only. Here's my reason:
In a panic stop, if the brake(s) lock up, tendency is to release the brake(s) and re-apply. From ABATE training, one should not release the rear if it locks up, but only to release the front and re-apply, because if the rear regain traction all of a sudden, the bike might high-side on you. Now we know when the s**t hits the fan, most trainings are out the window. Figure this is a good way to not lock up the rear as easy.
Was trying out just the rear and add the front at some point. After 2 years of riding with TCB in rear only, I choose not to add this to the front. Main reason is now the rear brake takes quite a bit more "pressure" for it to activate, and that kinda concern me....
That being said, TCB recommends if only doing one, it should be in the front. But as I mentioned, normal reflex is to release the brake and re-apply anyway if lock up, it make more sense to me to install in the rear and not the front.
Maybe that's the reason why I haven't notice shorter stopping distance. Overall, I'm not unhappy with the TCB, more for a peace of mind than anything.
Sorry for the long post, just want to voice my opinion for you to make an educated decision.
Ride safe
In a panic stop, if the brake(s) lock up, tendency is to release the brake(s) and re-apply. From ABATE training, one should not release the rear if it locks up, but only to release the front and re-apply, because if the rear regain traction all of a sudden, the bike might high-side on you. Now we know when the s**t hits the fan, most trainings are out the window. Figure this is a good way to not lock up the rear as easy.
Was trying out just the rear and add the front at some point. After 2 years of riding with TCB in rear only, I choose not to add this to the front. Main reason is now the rear brake takes quite a bit more "pressure" for it to activate, and that kinda concern me....
That being said, TCB recommends if only doing one, it should be in the front. But as I mentioned, normal reflex is to release the brake and re-apply anyway if lock up, it make more sense to me to install in the rear and not the front.
Maybe that's the reason why I haven't notice shorter stopping distance. Overall, I'm not unhappy with the TCB, more for a peace of mind than anything.
Sorry for the long post, just want to voice my opinion for you to make an educated decision.
Ride safe
#58
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this i've never heard, and in fact runs counter to what i was taught in the msf course. if you are coming up on a stop and hit the front brake first, your front end will 'dip' and cause the weight to shift from the rear towards the front. this makes the rear end have a lot less weight on the ground and makes it easier to lock up the rear wheel.
if you hit the rear brake first, the fulcrum point is closer to the rear tire, then you hit the front brake and instead of trying to pivot the bike from the front wheel, it helps to 'plant' the whole bike, putting more weight on the rear and less susceptible to skid.
if you hit the rear brake first, the fulcrum point is closer to the rear tire, then you hit the front brake and instead of trying to pivot the bike from the front wheel, it helps to 'plant' the whole bike, putting more weight on the rear and less susceptible to skid.
#59
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That may be a decent method when coming to a gradual stop, but it doesn't happen that way in a panic stop. In an emergency stop, there isn't time to grab one brake before the other. Both breaks will be applied as quickly as one's reaction time allows. You can't slap the brakes....the front brake needs to be grabbed like a lemon being squeezed for juice. The more pressure applied, the higher the weight transfer. That transfer causes more friction for the front tire which continually allows more squeezing. My point was that intentionally applying (vs using rider momentum) the rear brake during an emergency stop will almost certainly lock up the rear.
I have several hundred hours of motor training and I've never seen braking taught the way you mentioned. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I'd like to hear from others who train regularly.
I have several hundred hours of motor training and I've never seen braking taught the way you mentioned. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I'd like to hear from others who train regularly.
Last edited by dgreen1069; 04-03-2014 at 06:50 PM.
#60
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While your training resume on paper sounds quite impressive, you can always learn something new in practice.
Last edited by Juan L; 04-03-2014 at 08:21 PM.