This won't be popular but.......HD ABS sucks
#121
qtrracer - I'm only going by what your post reported that you did and the outcomes. You were blaming HD and ABS brakes. I'm I only putting the blame where it belongs. If you do not learn from this close call any why it happened you will be destined to repeat your mistakes.
All of the conditions that you described WERE the lack of knowledge and skill that you had about your bike and equipment. Very little to nothing had to do with the bike and it's equipment.
I will venture a suggestion that if you had not used the brakes at all and applied the amount of counter steer needed the bike would have made it around the bend without a problem. You should learn to trust your tires more.
All of the conditions that you described WERE the lack of knowledge and skill that you had about your bike and equipment. Very little to nothing had to do with the bike and it's equipment.
I will venture a suggestion that if you had not used the brakes at all and applied the amount of counter steer needed the bike would have made it around the bend without a problem. You should learn to trust your tires more.
Last edited by lh4x4; 01-29-2012 at 10:28 PM.
#122
qtrracer, if your writing above is accurate and you went into the turn so hard that you activated your ABS I hope you realize you would have locked your wheel without them. The fact that they came on in a curve says you were riding beyond your ability. But you know this by your statement about not needing anyone to tell you how to ride because your not going to listen. And you're right, you only need someone to follow you and call 911. Man up and learn from your mistake and stop blaming technology.
Ride well, accept advise,
Jim
Ride well, accept advise,
Jim
#123
This past summer on I 90 Montana, a cow Moose and her Calf ran out in front of me. I was on my 2011 ultra-abs. I didn't lock up or skid but I also didn't hit them. I was doing well over 70mph and de-accelerated in what seemed like slow motion- I could almost touch them or so it seemed. I'd learned not to lock up brakes years earlier but it seemed the abs took care of that. After I changed shorts at the silver dollar bar, I was impressed with the abs. For an old geezer 63 on a geezer bike I don't regret getting abs. 900lbs. is a lot of weight to keep up in a skid.
#124
qtrracer - I'm only going by what your post reported that you did and the outcomes. You were blaming HD and ABS brakes. I'm I only putting the blame where it belongs. If you do not learn from this close call any why it happened you will be destined to repeat your mistakes.
All of the conditions that you described WERE the lack of knowledge and skill that you had about your bike and equipment. Very little to nothing had to do with the bike and it's equipment.
I will venture a suggestion that if you had not used the brakes at all and applied the amount of counter steer needed the bike would have made it around the bend without a problem. You should learn to trust your tires more.
All of the conditions that you described WERE the lack of knowledge and skill that you had about your bike and equipment. Very little to nothing had to do with the bike and it's equipment.
I will venture a suggestion that if you had not used the brakes at all and applied the amount of counter steer needed the bike would have made it around the bend without a problem. You should learn to trust your tires more.
Last edited by 2black1s; 01-29-2012 at 10:55 PM.
#126
I have a RKC that came equipped with ABS and have since had the software update applied. Additionally, I have BMW M Roadster with stability control. Major difference between both control systems is that the BMW allows me to turn the system off with the press of button. Both are systems intrusive if left activated under spirited driving conditions. Knowing that there is no on-the-fly method of de-activating the ABS method forces me to realize that the limitation of operator control. If my riding style were more towards being aggressive to the point that might unwantingly activate the ABS on the bike I might seek ways to de-activate. If I were so aggressive a rider on a daily basis then I would have bought a bike that was not equipped with a non-switchable (to deactivate) ABS system. Being that I bought a bike with ABS, knowing that there was no on-the-fly method of deactivating, I am not going to bitch about the perceive limitation of the system design that doesn't know my riding skill level combined with my operation of the bike in any given conditions--damn thing should know better. Fault yourself for know completely understanding your equipment. On an aside, Formula One rules do not allow ABS--but, racing is not comparative to the legal operation of a motor vehicle on public streets. If your at the track, deactivate ABS, if you're operating your bike on public streets legally then it is unlikely that the factory design ABS will upset bike to point of being uncontrollable. It is more certain to assist the operator in the event of over control, i.e. panic braking to which even the most experienced rider may succumb.
#127
Where does riding aggressively enter the picture when a car suddenly stops in right front of you or turns across your path on a cold, rainy day? A bike with ABS has a much greater chance of stopping safely in such situations.
#128
This thread throws me off a bit. As a new rider making a purchase the dealer asked me if I wanted ABS or not so I decided to do some reseach since it's an extra grand added to the price tag. On one hand the Harley Youtube video makes it out to be this amazing thing that will save you in a bad situation and that seems to be the general consensus on the forum. On the other hand I'm reading a lot about how it engages when not intended such as braking on a yellow light over rough road and it causing you to end up in the middle of the intersection or braking before a turn and hitting a rough patch again causing you to enter at a higher rate of speed then intended. I'm leaning more towards getting it as it seems the PROs out weigh the CONs but I'm still on the fence.
ABS is simply new equipment that the riding public needs to become familiar with. Whether you are new to bikes or a seasoned rider.... Whether you are changing from one manufacturer to another.... Yamaha to BMW to Harley.... each manyfacturer builds their bikes different. A dirt bike is different than a cruiser. HEY, riding a Sportster is different than riding an Ultra!
For someone to be a well rounded rider they need to be familiar with each style of bike that they ride and the various bikes' associated equipment. In my youth I rode bikes across the Mohave desert. There was an "old guy" who rode a Harley Bagger out there too. I would not recommend it. But, nevertheless, he rode across the desert sand as we did.
If you have ABS learn to use it. Learn it's advantages and disadvantages. A good rider will learn about his/her equipment and how to use it. He/she will learn it's limitations and it's range.
The nice thing about this thread is that these advantages, disadvantages, limits, and ranges are being discussed.
After all, "A man's got to know his limitations". - Inspector Callahan
Last edited by Matt0987; 01-30-2012 at 12:11 AM.
#129
I don't know the answer to this for your BMW but ... ESC is steering control and on some cars turning off ESC does not turn off the ABS system. Granted the two are linked but turning off one does not necessarily mean turning off the other.
But I do agree with your other point. I like to ride aggressively when canyon riding but I also know that the Harley ABS systems has it flaws. I am a supporter of ABS and thats why I choose to ride within the limits of the system instead of disabling it.
But I do agree with your other point. I like to ride aggressively when canyon riding but I also know that the Harley ABS systems has it flaws. I am a supporter of ABS and thats why I choose to ride within the limits of the system instead of disabling it.
I have a RKC that came equipped with ABS and have since had the software update applied. Additionally, I have BMW M Roadster with stability control. Major difference between both control systems is that the BMW allows me to turn the system off with the press of button. Both are systems intrusive if left activated under spirited driving conditions. Knowing that there is no on-the-fly method of de-activating the ABS method forces me to realize that the limitation of operator control. If my riding style were more towards being aggressive to the point that might unwantingly activate the ABS on the bike I might seek ways to de-activate. If I were so aggressive a rider on a daily basis then I would have bought a bike that was not equipped with a non-switchable (to deactivate) ABS system. Being that I bought a bike with ABS, knowing that there was no on-the-fly method of deactivating, I am not going to bitch about the perceive limitation of the system design that doesn't know my riding skill level combined with my operation of the bike in any given conditions--damn thing should know better. Fault yourself for know completely understanding your equipment. On an aside, Formula One rules do not allow ABS--but, racing is not comparative to the legal operation of a motor vehicle on public streets. If your at the track, deactivate ABS, if you're operating your bike on public streets legally then it is unlikely that the factory design ABS will upset bike to point of being uncontrollable. It is more certain to assist the operator in the event of over control, i.e. panic braking to which even the most experienced rider may succumb.