Built the best engine cooling system...again
#812
07-25-2012, 06:43 AM
I recieved the cooling fan last week and installed it on Friday. I'd like to confirm what others have said about the quality of this product. Its a well built, American made device that moves a considerable amount of air. Very impressive Jason.
I did a test of the fan at idle. I'm sure others have done this but I thought I'd post my results anyway. I started the bike cold the first time without the fans running and recorded oil and cylinder head temp for 11 minutes. At 11 minutes I shut it down because it was getting hot. The next day, I started it cold and idled the bike for 17 minutes. I could have gone longer but I was limited on time but this shows the effectiveness of the fans at idle. Both days the outside air temp at my house was over 100 degrees. I used a digital dip stick to get the oil temp and my Thunder Max software to monitor the cylinder head temp. Since I have no way to monitor these temps on the go, all I could perform was an idle test but thats what our bikes do alot of in stop and go traffic and at stop lights.When I'm riding the bike I can tell there isn't as much heat boiling up on my legs. Count me as another person who believes Jasons fan makes a marked improvement in engine temperatures. The following is the specs for my bike and the test results.
.
2012 Ultra Classic Electra Glide
Stock 103 engine with stock throttle body and cams
Zippers Maxflow air cleaner
D&D Fat Cat 2into1 exhaust with a quiet baffle
Thunder Max ECM
.
Day 1, 101 degree outside air temp, fan OFF
.
.............OIL......CHT
1 min.......93......103
2 min......101......131
3 min......109......156
4 min......116......178
5 min......122......200
6 min......129......219
7 min......135......234
8 min......141......249
9 min......148......264
10 min.....153......276
11 min.....159......287
.
.
Day 2, 103 degree outside air temp, fan ON
.
.............OIL......CHT
1 min......101......107
2 min......111......127
3 min......117......145
4 min......124......161
5 min......131......172
6 min......131......183
7 min......142......191
8 min......148......198
9 min......153......205
10 min.....158......211
11 min.....162......217
12 min.....167......221
13 min.....173......224
14 min.....176......227
15 min.....181......230
16 min.....185......233
17 min.....190......235
I did a test of the fan at idle. I'm sure others have done this but I thought I'd post my results anyway. I started the bike cold the first time without the fans running and recorded oil and cylinder head temp for 11 minutes. At 11 minutes I shut it down because it was getting hot. The next day, I started it cold and idled the bike for 17 minutes. I could have gone longer but I was limited on time but this shows the effectiveness of the fans at idle. Both days the outside air temp at my house was over 100 degrees. I used a digital dip stick to get the oil temp and my Thunder Max software to monitor the cylinder head temp. Since I have no way to monitor these temps on the go, all I could perform was an idle test but thats what our bikes do alot of in stop and go traffic and at stop lights.When I'm riding the bike I can tell there isn't as much heat boiling up on my legs. Count me as another person who believes Jasons fan makes a marked improvement in engine temperatures. The following is the specs for my bike and the test results.
.
2012 Ultra Classic Electra Glide
Stock 103 engine with stock throttle body and cams
Zippers Maxflow air cleaner
D&D Fat Cat 2into1 exhaust with a quiet baffle
Thunder Max ECM
.
Day 1, 101 degree outside air temp, fan OFF
.
.............OIL......CHT
1 min.......93......103
2 min......101......131
3 min......109......156
4 min......116......178
5 min......122......200
6 min......129......219
7 min......135......234
8 min......141......249
9 min......148......264
10 min.....153......276
11 min.....159......287
.
.
Day 2, 103 degree outside air temp, fan ON
.
.............OIL......CHT
1 min......101......107
2 min......111......127
3 min......117......145
4 min......124......161
5 min......131......172
6 min......131......183
7 min......142......191
8 min......148......198
9 min......153......205
10 min.....158......211
11 min.....162......217
12 min.....167......221
13 min.....173......224
14 min.....176......227
15 min.....181......230
16 min.....185......233
17 min.....190......235
From reading this it actually has me somewhat worried the the fans may actually be causing the oil temp to rise higher than it would without them at idle..I say this because "it appears" fans cool the cooling fins on the head
which could cause the engine to NOT go into single cylinder running mode even though the oil is hot...when the engine goes into etms it actually cools the inside of the motor and that is where the oil is...whereas the fans just cool the fins of the motor, which in theory should cool the oil but from the looks of the results from the test, it looks as though it doesn't...
#813
07-25-2012, 07:44 AM
From reading this it actually has me somewhat worried the the fans may actually be causing the oil temp to rise higher than it would without them at idle..I say this because "it appears" fans cool the cooling fins on the head
which could cause the engine to NOT go into single cylinder running mode even though the oil is hot...when the engine goes into etms it actually cools the inside of the motor and that is where the oil is...whereas the fans just cool the fins of the motor, which in theory should cool the oil but from the looks of the results from the test, it looks as though it doesn't...
which could cause the engine to NOT go into single cylinder running mode even though the oil is hot...when the engine goes into etms it actually cools the inside of the motor and that is where the oil is...whereas the fans just cool the fins of the motor, which in theory should cool the oil but from the looks of the results from the test, it looks as though it doesn't...
#815
07-25-2012, 09:21 AM
I agree. At 11 minutes there is a mere 3 degree difference in oil temp. I wouldn't get myself worked up over that.
#816
07-25-2012, 09:53 AM
I agree with SkyDude and Rideon. The delta is negligible in steady state operation (i.e. , real riding versus long term idle) which is real life.
Everyone should remember the source of the heat which is the combustion chamber. That heat then migrates outward in the Engine Block (and therefore the cooling fins) as well as being transferred to the Oil.
Heat flows, Cold does not. The higher the differential between the Temperatures (Hot and Cold), the faster the Heat is dissipated.
I like a "cooler" ride and specific parts of my body don't like getting too warm. That's why I have a Crotch Cooler, Oil Cooler, Jason's FCS, Synthetic Oil, etc..... Now if I could just figure out how to get some refrigeration out of the V-Twin AC would be next.
Everyone should remember the source of the heat which is the combustion chamber. That heat then migrates outward in the Engine Block (and therefore the cooling fins) as well as being transferred to the Oil.
Heat flows, Cold does not. The higher the differential between the Temperatures (Hot and Cold), the faster the Heat is dissipated.
I like a "cooler" ride and specific parts of my body don't like getting too warm. That's why I have a Crotch Cooler, Oil Cooler, Jason's FCS, Synthetic Oil, etc..... Now if I could just figure out how to get some refrigeration out of the V-Twin AC would be next.
#817
07-25-2012, 12:13 PM
I did a review right after installing the FCS, then two follow-up posts later on:
p. 51, #509
p. 55, #543
p. 71, #709
I give the FCS a thumbs-up, and it still amazes me how such small fans can make such a difference in CHT.
p. 51, #509
p. 55, #543
p. 71, #709
I give the FCS a thumbs-up, and it still amazes me how such small fans can make such a difference in CHT.
#818
07-25-2012, 03:09 PM
I think you missed the point I made entirely...so I will try again...on both charts the oil temp is basically identical ( taking into account the difference in air temp), but the head fins are obviously getting cooler and causing the temperature sender in the head to believe that the whole engine is cooler than it really is...which causes the eitms to not engage (which we know because it never goes into single cylinder mode with the fans on)....also, I am quite surprised to see that the oil temps did not drop, rise slower, or not rise as high with the fans on as with the fans off...I personally believe that if the first test (no fans) would have been run longer we would have continued to see the oil temps rise at a much greater rate than in the 2nd test with the fans on....
#819
07-25-2012, 04:23 PM
Too much ado about nothing. The reason I'm getting the fans is for a cooler engine when stuck in traffic, or putting about on a hot summer day. Don't care what the oil temp will be. I do know that it will be cooler than it is now and won't heat up as quickly. Plus the better half will be happier. Additionally, I have no intention of sitting at idle for any length of time.
#820
07-25-2012, 04:53 PM
Delta - I'm there with ya Buddy!
The operational data collected could be second guessed and analyzed till the cows come home given all the variables .
Although I am an Engineer by training and by profession, I am smart enough to know when something works and not always why it works or even how.
Jason's Forced Convection System works and I'm running cooler than I ever have. No more 300F for me in traffic.
The operational data collected could be second guessed and analyzed till the cows come home given all the variables .
Although I am an Engineer by training and by profession, I am smart enough to know when something works and not always why it works or even how.
Jason's Forced Convection System works and I'm running cooler than I ever have. No more 300F for me in traffic.