I think your best bet is to sell it with your ECM but that is just my opinion. I personally feel you are worried about the ECM on the bike it came with for reasons that really aren't that viable. The dealership may not even notice if it has another ECM on it and if they do, they'd have a hell of a time proving that it caused any problems if one arises but again, this is just my opinion and we all know about opinions. Furthermore, warranty is probably going to be an issue anyway because you are not using a SE tuner and you didn't have all of this done before the bike left their posession, or at least that's how the dealerships here work. I know some dealerships do not operate that way. On this forum there was an ECM and a TTS that were married for $300 or so not that long ago. That would be the route I would go but again, you're your own man and its what you want to do that needs to be done.

 

Could not agree more. I've been using a PCV with autotune, but it's had it's share of issues. Going to be changing over to tts and a dyno tune during the off season.

 

Calling Dynojet and asking them what ever it is that you cannot get your Power Vision to do or what you do not or cannot figure out about it, specifically.

What is your issue w/it specifically?

I think that the thing to do would be to get a map as close to what you currently or running and then try to build on it..
I'll bet you can start to get it fairly close..

Call Roy Hartman @Dynojet. They are in Las Vegas..
Very knowledgeable person.

 

My issue is, once again, that no one local to me tunes with it.

I do not want to screw with my tuner, that's what I am paying someone for, I have a demanding job, 2 kids, wife, a pending second job, and barely have time to ride. I am not going to spend what little time I have trying to learn to tune bikes.

My PV and stage one are ok, the bike runs cooler but there's a lot of decel pop, and the gas mileage isn't great. I do NOT want a canned map when I upgrade to cams, why is that so difficult to grasp. The resins don't really matter, that's what I have decided to do.

I simply started this thread to see if the PV would be worth anything used to someone else, that's all. Is my current map close, sure, do I think it could be better, hell yes. Do I want the same issue with cams, hell no. I want my bike to run as good as it can, and my opinion is, with the PV that's not going to happen, because of the fact that no one around me tunes with it. If I had a local tuner I trusted that used the PV, there would be no issue. I shouldn't have to buy cams based on what someone has a map for, I don't want certain cams that are all the rage right now, for my own personal reasons. I am realistic with my needs, and found what I want to fill those needs, it doesn't jive with the PV with no one to tune it, that's all.

If others are happy with their PV, great. I never said it doesn't work, or wouldn't work with upgrades, etc.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and I have mine about the stuff that's going on my bike. I have been looking at this crap for more than a year and made my decisions on the information and products that are available in comparison to how I ride and what needs and wants I have.

I'm not gonna race my bike @ Homestead Miami speedway against Tony Stewart for the Sprint Cup Championships, not looking for a hot rod.

I have purposely left names of people and brands out of this thread so it wouldn't turn into another argument between folks about cams and tuners, we have enough of those on the forum to last us a lifetime.

All I wanted to know was is the PV worth something used to someone, then I would know if I could get any $$ out of it, or if it's going to meet it's doom facing the end of my AR......

Simple as that, I jumped into my stage one without thinking through the tuner 100%, I should have given it more thought considering I knew I would take the upgrades further later on and no one around here tunes with the PV, I thought it looked like something people would pick up, for whatever reason no one in my area has, not anyone I would let tune my bike anyways.

 

I'm told from a reliable source that there is a likelihood that in the not-too-distant future (perhaps EOY) DJ will offer a PV unlock code for a fee. Since the PV and bike are already married, you might call it a divorce proceeding . That might be something to look into. I'll be able to check into this further after this week, possibly earlier. If you're absolutely certain you want a custom dyno-tune I would buy whatever tuner your chosen tuner prefers to work with.

I know you've said you don't want to fool with self-tuning, but I'm going to indulge your patience with a few thoughts anyway. Trust that it is an effort steeped in good intentions . The PV is capable of self-tuning, much like TTS or other flash-based tuners, and with the optional AT-100 auto-tune kit can tune throughout the operating range. It can also tune spark-advance, and is the only tuner that I know of that can do this. It really doesn't take that much time once you understand the procedure. You basically just ride the bike after enabling datalogging with some post-production work required with the supplied software. Then flash to the ECM and you're done. Repeat as desired.

There is an active thread on the ECM/Tuner forum specific to the PV and its operation, so you might check there before abandoning it. I have been able to tune my bike very well with the 255 cams, using the Auto-Tune kit I had left-over from my PCV days. It has worked very well for me and the others reporting on that thread.

I agree that a custom dyno-tune has its place, but the success of such a project depends largely on the competence of the human tuner, a high level of which isn't a given. As to your concern that a "canned map" (from Fuel Moto or wherever) isn't applicable to another geographic location, the on-board sensors (air & head temp, MAP, etc.) will take care of any altitude, temperature, or barometric pressure differences. After all, the latter two will nearly always be different from day to day even if the dyno-tune is performed in the same location. I live in LA and I found the Fuel Moto map provided for my PCV to be very close, verified after connecting Auto-Tune at a later date. I'm certain that whatever performance nuances encountered between the two locations would be so small as to be unnoticeable.

 

OP, sorry we've gotten off topic here but Id like to ask you, iclick, and without sounding like Im trying to stir up an argument because I know that you know much more than I or most others on this forum about the dynojet tuners. How do you know you are getting all you can out of your bike without a dyno run and the software a dyno has on it to show you exactly where you could improve? That is what the OP and many others want out of a tuner. I wasn't aware that the Vision would make suggestions to alter spark tables. Even if it does, I still can't see it being what the OP would want because he doesn't care to learn how to tune but I'd be interested to know how this particular feature works on the Vision. Thanks.

 

It's a paper weight waiting for you to sell the bike and include it with the deal

 

That's a stretch, but I'll give it a shot.

That's a good question. The honest answer is that you don't know, at least if you're trying to pull every fraction of a HP and/or TQ, or indeed fuel efficiency, out of the engine in all areas. There is some convention in tuning as to applying AFRs to achieve various effects. For example, the conventional thinking for WOT tuning is ~13.0:1 for power, but cruise-range AFR isn't so cut-and-dried. You can tune between 13.5-14.6 for a balance between mileage, cooling, and throttle response. You can even go outside this broad range, although I personally wouldn't tune my bike above 14.6 or below 14.2. That said, I have a tune in my PV at all times that has 13.0 throughout the operating range for those times, like summer gridlock traffic, when oil and head temps go too high. I can switch to it in about 30 sec. on the side of the road. The trade-off in cruise-range AFR is perhaps a bit of throttle response and cooling (richer) for mileage (leaner), but on my bike I can't tell any performance difference between 13.5 and 14.6 at all, and see only about 7°F (CHT) between the two at a moderate highway cruise. However, there is at least 10% difference in mileage between the two extremes, which is why I run mine at 14.0 at idle and 14.6 from there to 85 KPA (PV) or 40% TP (PCV).

The problem with self-tuning--like I've always done with the PCIII, PCV, and PV--is that you are not seeing AFR or other tuning criteria translated into a HP or TQ value. With a dyno-tune you may be able to tweak a bit more HP and/or TQ by running 12.9 or 13.2, for example. My argument is that few if any riders could actually feel the difference, but if you were tuning to be competitive in a drag-racing environment, as an example, every little bit helps.

It can tune the spark tables using the Spark Retard parameter in the ECM. This is datalogged and the software will adjust the spark-advance accordingly. The idea is to first increase advance across-the-board and let the retard function kick in during your datalog run(s), and after a few sessions you should have the advance at a favorable point for the gas you're currently using. I haven't spent nearly as much time with this as with tuning AFRs on my bike, but there are some on the PV sticky thread who have.

I know, and threw out some of that info in case he was on the fence and might feel the force of the challenge pulling on him, enough to get him on the other side of the fence. I do understand that not everyone is interested in this stuff, and those of us who like to work with these advanced tuners are in the minority.

 

I had/have a 2011 LTD stage one and wanted cams (255's this time, had TW6 and 555's). I also had/have a Power Vision. I kinda thought, "crap, now what.....not Woods cams and need a tune for my bike". I ended up getting a tune from Jamie sent to me and DL'd in my PV. Bike runs super! Am I going to take it to Jamie and have him dyno it (like he did to my '10 Ultra stage 1/2/107)?.....maybe, but I'm suprised how well it runs with a canned map. My problem is, I'll always wonder if there's more power to be had.

On a side note, I'd like to learn more about what my bike is missing at 1/4 throttle....1/2 throttle and 3/4 throttle after a tune from Jamie. I HEAR so much about a dyno tune only being good for WOT.....truth is (like most), I dont run at WOT much.

Sorry to drift off topic.

 

Dyno tunes are much more than just a wide open throttle tune, at least it should be, from a quality/reputable tuner, dyno guy. you only see the end result in the form of the dyno sheet as WOT with max HP/tq that's what ever1 wants to see and show of to their buddies.
They tune or supposed to tune each RPM and throttle positions, filling in the not just the wide open throttle positions. Tuning just the WOT position surely wouldn't take 3-4hrs. This is one of the reasons dyno tuners prefer one make over the other it all comes down to experience working with a certain tuner day in day out.