More cam questions... again
#31
10-26-2011, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the info. It looks like the peak # are at about 3500 to 4000 rpm with the 204 that is a little higher in the rpm range than where the 255 come up to peak. So am I correct in assuming that the 204 are more mid range cams than low range cams.
Would the peak numbers with the 204 be a little higher than the 255 ?
Would the peak numbers with the 204 be a little higher than the 255 ?
#32
10-26-2011, 11:31 AM
I feel ya about doing something different from the herd, it’s part of the reason I retrofitted a 2010 SG OEM 2:1 on my 06, and once tuned, it turned out to be a solid performer, even with the CAT still in place (not even going there again). It’s really not a bad option. I also ran the FM 2:1 pipe w/ stock muffler on the same bike and it was a little stronger, I’m inclined to believe that a slightly different design would work even better. Truth is it’s all a mix and match trial and error game, and it’s designed that way to ensure future sales, otherwise aftermarket exhaust system specs would also recommend a specific cam or at least some compatible cam characteristics, but most product info focus is on looks and sound. Can you imagine no industry standards for publishing cam specifications, only highly experienced builders would be able to set up and tune an engine. When I first joined the forum I mentioned the idea of an exhaust specifications industry standard, and I got smacked down for being a tree hugging EPA ****. All I was suggesting was to publish the actual critical dimensions and design attributes so over time reasonable performance relationships could be identified to help everyone match exhaust to their build. Among most of the available manufactured systems, without looking at back to back properly tuned dyno runs, installed on the same bike, it would be hard to tell the difference in performance among the different systems in the same category, 2:1, 2:2, and now also 2:1:2. More often than not, the performance factor takes a back seat to appearance and sound, which explains why there are so many choices, yet the basic functional designs are limited. Unless you have the resources to build and test for yourself, it would be wildly expensive and very time intensive to develop or find the “perfect” exhaust system, for one specific build. That 2:1 Thunderheader in your sig pic is a proven top performer, if you can tolerate the sound level, there's no reason to get rid of that pipe. Unfortunately EPA noise and emissions, manufacturing and development cost, and aesthetics, prevent these bikes from being OEM configured for maximum performance potential, and the very same factors drive the aftermarket. I think it would be very surprising to see and feel the results of an otherwise stock bike with a purpose built intake and exhaust designed for the stock cams, with a high quality tune. Wouldn’t that be sweet to be able to buy a complete intake and exhaust system to bolt onto a bone stock bike that would guarantee max performance? Well it wouldn’t be profit effective for many reasons, so it won’t likely happen. Sorry to all for digressing so far from the original post.
#33
10-26-2011, 01:52 PM
Ive talked to you before about this very problem. I didnt have an oil temp gauge on my RKC but it would sshut doen to one cylinder before everyone else I rode with and one of the dyno tuners said that it probably was the early intake valve close from the SE255's creating the heat. I ran amsoil the whole time and tried an oil cooler but it wouldnt fit because of the O2 bung on the Thunderheader. I dont know what the temps were but the head temps had to be pretty warm because the EITMS was constantly engaging. I had the tuner richen it up but it didnt go away. I think the dip was because the Thunderheader was over exhausting in the rpm area where the dip was. I know youre a huge fan of these cams and I like the idea of the way these cams work but they just weren't for me.
When the temps got up, the bike also got sluggish as you would expect from any hot engine... When it was cool, very nice throttle response and great acceleration.
When the temps got up, the bike also got sluggish as you would expect from any hot engine... When it was cool, very nice throttle response and great acceleration.
It doesn't matter at this point, of course, as you have moved on to another bike. The 103 you now have opens up many more viable cam options than you had available to you with the 96, and I think you're going about the selection process properly. The important thing is matching your expectations with the characteristics of the system, which includes cams, exhaust, and tune.
I'd like to learn more about 2-into-1 and that midrange dip. Next time I talk to Jamie at Fuel Moto I'll have to remember to pick his brain. I do recall him saying that some specific systems produce this dip, but I don't recall what they were.
Last edited by iclick; 10-26-2011 at 02:00 PM.
#34
10-26-2011, 03:21 PM
Okay, I'm fuzzy on the conversation but I do believe you. Did we bring up the subject of sumping? Excessive heat and sluggish operation after warm-up is a symptom thereof, and that's an installation issue, not a characteristic of any cam set. My experience involving cooling is quite different, as my bike runs abnormally cool, even though I'm running my cruise-range at stoich (stock AFRs). I do have a cooler and that definitely makes a difference. EITMS enable on my '07 is 290°, although I don't have the necessary heat-mgt. firmware loaded to make it work, and it hits this CHT very rarely and only in gridlock traffic.
It doesn't matter at this point, of course, as you have moved on to another bike. The 103 you now have opens up many more viable cam options than you had available to you with the 96, and I think you're going about the selection process properly. The important thing is matching your expectations with the characteristics of the system, which includes cams, exhaust, and tune.
I'd like to learn more about 2-into-1 and that midrange dip. Next time I talk to Jamie at Fuel Moto I'll have to remember to pick his brain. I do recall him saying that some specific systems produce this dip, but I don't recall what they were.
It doesn't matter at this point, of course, as you have moved on to another bike. The 103 you now have opens up many more viable cam options than you had available to you with the 96, and I think you're going about the selection process properly. The important thing is matching your expectations with the characteristics of the system, which includes cams, exhaust, and tune.
I'd like to learn more about 2-into-1 and that midrange dip. Next time I talk to Jamie at Fuel Moto I'll have to remember to pick his brain. I do recall him saying that some specific systems produce this dip, but I don't recall what they were.
As far as my 103, I think I will like it better but I talked to TR today and to be honest, he kinda scared me away from the 555 TQ cams at first. He says his new 600 lift cam would be better to build around later if I decided I wanted to do head work later on. He basically said if if Im not happy with the way the bike runs, screw the warranty and pull the heads, send them to him and he'll cc the heads, do a CNC port job, valve job and new springs and suggested running it at 10.25:1 compression and bump it up to around 120 squared. With what Im looking to do, like I said in my op, I just dont see this being neccesary and I dont want to have to worry about dependabilty for every day riding and running crap gas if I had to. In the end, he only recommended the 600 cams because they would offer more to build around. He told me to look at his facebook page, which I did, at a 103 with stock head pipe with the cat (which I wont be running) at the numbers. The numbers look great, no doubt about it but they are too far to the right for me. After settling back down from scrabbling my brains, Im still back to his 555 TQ cams. He says that the 555 cams will require a good tune to function correctly and the 600's would be more forgiving.
#35
10-27-2011, 01:53 AM
Grand HDF Member
Something different,'12 RK
I ve got an rb racing black hole and a baker DD7 on the floor next to me.Hope to install in a few weeks.I'm also gonna pull the heads and do a cam. I like the torkster and a few other cams. I had an andrews 21,S&S pushrods and feuling lifters in my 95"dyna.I'll probably go w/an Andrews 37 set at about 10-1.I like quiet and i like reliable,which is why i like a low lift cam with mild porting.
#38
01-31-2012, 07:22 PM
6th Gear
Here's my take on this.
I purchased a 2011 road glide with a 103 new and immediately had a v&h pro pipe, se heavy breather, se race tuner installed.After the installation the bike dynoed 75 HP and 91 FT LBS of torque.
I just installed 254E cams and the bike dynoed 88 HP and 94 ft lbs of torque. I picked up 12 HP and a few ft lbs of torque.I think I made a good choice of cams and exhaust for a stock engine. The blike pulls hard up to 5500 rpm. I spent $ 1000.00 on the cams, gaskets and adjustable pushrods. $1500.00 for the pro pipe, race tuner, heavy breather and dyno tune. I recommend this set up to anyone.
I purchased a 2011 road glide with a 103 new and immediately had a v&h pro pipe, se heavy breather, se race tuner installed.After the installation the bike dynoed 75 HP and 91 FT LBS of torque.
I just installed 254E cams and the bike dynoed 88 HP and 94 ft lbs of torque. I picked up 12 HP and a few ft lbs of torque.I think I made a good choice of cams and exhaust for a stock engine. The blike pulls hard up to 5500 rpm. I spent $ 1000.00 on the cams, gaskets and adjustable pushrods. $1500.00 for the pro pipe, race tuner, heavy breather and dyno tune. I recommend this set up to anyone.
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