Engine Operating Temperature
#51
05-06-2014, 08:13 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
I've ridden across the desert in Aug on a TC88 & around 85-90+ mph. My buddies were doing the same. They were rattling, we took a break, they cooled down & we did it again & again. Never had any issues with the bike. I have a 11 FLTRX & it runs hot, especially here in NoCal. I do use RedLine & no it doesn't make it run cooler, it keeps thing lubricated better. If you get a gauge, you'll just drive yourself crazy. Just my 2 cents.
#52
05-07-2014, 09:34 AM
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No real argument with most of what you've said there, since it's pretty much what I said in the post you quoted. It is interesting that you project a general anti-cooling sentiment, and you have an aversion to parade fans and temperature gauges, yet you some how find justification in the oil coolers you have on both bikes you own. While not particularly attractive, a parade fan is far more effective at cooling; they lower CHTs and as a secondary result they lower oil temp. Oil coolers only cool the oil; at best they barely slow down the rise in CHTs, you just can't cool the oil enough to control CHTs. There is no predictable correlation between oil temp and CHTs. In southern summer riding I can have oil temps in the 205-215 range and still have CHTs over 340* after just 2-4 minutes of dead stop traffic. This is not theory, this is my observation from 4 riding seasons and about 20K miles in the south east, with a custom monitoring system which gives me the ability to observe front and rear CHTs, and oil temp at multiple points. When I first started my cooling project, I believed engine temp could be controlled with a really good oil cooling system. Unfortunately I was wrong, but my pursuit still led me to develop the best oil cooling system in operation today, and it was fully functional 2 years before the release of the Jagg fan assist system and a couple months before the Ultra Cool. Both Jagg and UltraCool graciously declined my collaboration offer, otherwise the Jagg system could have come to market 2 years earlier, and both systems would have performed better. Anyway that ship sailed, but my current project is a new twist on the old parade fan and this one won't get away. The real shortfall of the parade fan is the manual toggle switch; a fully automatic switch based on vehicle speed and temperature would significantly enhance the effectiveness of a parade fan. CHT rises so rapidly when you slow down and come to a stop its difficult stay on top of switching in stop and go traffic, besides how many parade fan users actually have CHT gauge so they will know when to turn on the fan. Another observation, about natural air cooling while you're moving, which will be really hard to sell cause I'm probably the only person who can actually see it. There is a relatively narrow speed band when your bike is effectively naturally air-cooling, of course there are many influencing variables, but with a stock tune from about 50-65 MPH your engine is shedding the same amount of heat it is generating. Below 50 MPH there is not enough air moving to cool the heat being generated, above 65 MPH and your engine is generating more heat than the air at that speed can carry away. I’m sure you and others will have a difficult time digesting my claims, but since you don’t believe in temperature gauges and don’t have one, you have no basis to refute anything I’ve said. I know you possess great experience and knowledge in the tuning arena I surrender the utmost respect due, because I do my own tuning also. I have dedicated just as much if not more energy to the science of cooling the Twin Cam as you have to tuning, and I probably know more about the subject than the cooling product manufacturers. I’ve got no reason to make up BS just to waste time posting on this forum. I try to share my knowledge and experience and for the most part it is widely rejected because I operate outside the boundaries of conventional wisdom. In due time folks will look back and realize what they thought they knew about Twin Cam cooling was wrong, and hopefully someone will remember that they heard it from me first. Nope, no vast landfills full of heat killed Twin Cams, so they must not NEED any additional cooling. Pre 07s aren’t dying off left and right from oil starvation but a bunch of ‘em have improved Fueling oil pumps installed that they don’t NEED. We don’t need a fish finder in the bass boat, we don’t need unlimited calling text and data, we don’t need brand name corn flakes, we don’t need 37 pairs of shoes, we don’t need $4k wheels, $10k engines, $2K chrome gee jaws, $1K tuners, really we don’t need any modifications, and we don’t need to flush the toilet after every use. Our Lives and our bikes would be pretty lame if we only had that which we NEED.
Last edited by Eric Lis; 05-07-2014 at 09:40 AM.
#53
05-07-2014, 10:12 AM
Ultimate HDF Member
Interesting read as I have had the same experiences as fabrk8ter has stated. I own a 13 RG with 120R. I have installed the gauges necessary to monitor eng temps ie; cyl head and oil temp. I live in FL and in Traffic used to see the temps many worry about. I have since installed the JAGG 10 row with fan, and Wards fans. Both systems have thermostatic switches to turn on the fans at a predetermined temp. I now flip a switch, ride any way I want, anywhere I choose, and the temps stay where I want them Heads 255F Oil 225F. I`m sure if everyone wanted to ask their Nascar friend what temps they look for and call warm to hot would be surprised with the answer they got.
#54
05-07-2014, 06:06 PM
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#55
05-07-2014, 06:54 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
Your bike was designed to accomodate a 2-year, unlimited mileage warranty with 5,000 mile oil-change intervals using regular dino oil. That warranty holds true if you live in Death Valley and idle through traffic for 50,000 miles a year.
#56
05-07-2014, 06:57 PM
Synthetic oil is not a panacia for running temperatures. It will stay stable and not break down like regular crude but that's it. Any oil company claiming their oil keeps engines cooler are making false claims. Use a good quality synthetic, put an oil cooler on it then just ride and enjoy. Toss those distracting temp monitors they are causing obsessive monitoring when you need to keep your attention on the road. These are air cooled engines and made to run in the temperature ranges observed by the OP. If engine temperatures are that big a concern then a brand with a radiator is probably what the bike choice should have been.
#57
06-23-2014, 12:34 PM
Greetings!
I have a 2013 Street Bob 103" with almost 8400mi on the clock. It has a de-catted wide glide header, V&H slip-ons and a SE air cleaner kit. I made the mistake of buying a HD led temp dip stick. With the outside temps in the high 80s my oil temps have been 276-278 degrees after a 100+ mile ride several times a week. I ride about 8-9k miles a year and I run Red Line oil and lubes. This seems way high to me!!???
Bruce
I have a 2013 Street Bob 103" with almost 8400mi on the clock. It has a de-catted wide glide header, V&H slip-ons and a SE air cleaner kit. I made the mistake of buying a HD led temp dip stick. With the outside temps in the high 80s my oil temps have been 276-278 degrees after a 100+ mile ride several times a week. I ride about 8-9k miles a year and I run Red Line oil and lubes. This seems way high to me!!???
Bruce
#58
06-23-2014, 08:29 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
What about this Plus One Oil pan from Baker Drivetrain? It allows the addition of one extra quart of oil thus extra cooling. Sounds logical, especially with an oil cooler bike such as my '12 EC.
Baker Linkhttp://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/flt/index.htm#p1p
Anyone running one of these? Any issues? How far down dose it hang below the frame? Can I still use my jack to lift the bike with one of these installed? I'm going to call Baker and depending on what they say, I may install one. If I do, I will let you know how much it drops the oil temp if any.
I for one, will not be convinced otherwise that when you have two pieces of metal rubbing together at high speeds, the cooler that metal, the better lubricated that metal, the less stress, wear and tear, the metal is subject too. Mechanics, metallurgist, and physicist figured that out a century ago. It also makes for a more comfortable ride.
There is also no disputing how far and long "conventional" twin cams have run. I have a 2005 Deluxe and a 2012 EC sitting in my shop. I ride both. The '05 88 has a stage I, the '12 103 has a stage II. The 88 runs considerably cooler.
But my question is about the Plus One oil pan.
Woolly
Baker Linkhttp://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/flt/index.htm#p1p
Anyone running one of these? Any issues? How far down dose it hang below the frame? Can I still use my jack to lift the bike with one of these installed? I'm going to call Baker and depending on what they say, I may install one. If I do, I will let you know how much it drops the oil temp if any.
I for one, will not be convinced otherwise that when you have two pieces of metal rubbing together at high speeds, the cooler that metal, the better lubricated that metal, the less stress, wear and tear, the metal is subject too. Mechanics, metallurgist, and physicist figured that out a century ago. It also makes for a more comfortable ride.
There is also no disputing how far and long "conventional" twin cams have run. I have a 2005 Deluxe and a 2012 EC sitting in my shop. I ride both. The '05 88 has a stage I, the '12 103 has a stage II. The 88 runs considerably cooler.
But my question is about the Plus One oil pan.
Woolly
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