Honest Review of Motorcycle Metal and Ohlins
#101
10-13-2013, 10:42 AM
Moderator
I'm commenting on the op's experience and because this is a forum. I don't need to be caudled and I don't want to have to deal with a teenager that doesn't know ****. But just because someone is a self proclaimed 'expert' doesn't give them the right to treat the general public like idiots. Instead of telling that one guy about progressive products 'I don't sell junk' it might be better to say 'I sell what I believe to be a better engineered product which is higher quality and demands a higher price' I am an expert on repairing gm vehicles, but I also have to explain repairs to people that don't understand why voltage on the class 2 data line must fluctuate from 0 to 5 volts indicating that the class 2 modules are communicating. I don't expect them to know that, and if I treat them like idiots, I will probably lose their business.
You may disagree with his demeanor, however until you've experienced it for yourself Mr. Goodwrench, how do you know the OP wasn't just being an *******?
#102
10-13-2013, 12:13 PM
I don't know. But unlike yourself, and some others, I assume the truth, give respect, and comment accordingly.
#103
10-13-2013, 01:30 PM
Interesting thread.
I just ordered my 2nd set of 3-3's, this pair is for my '14 SG. I wouldn't think of putting anything else on my bike. Then again, even with somewhat of a bad taste in his mouth, neither would OP. It was good to see OP acknowledge that fact.
Honestly, when I spoke to Howard the first time around in 2010, I just listened and got as much of an education as I could. In the end, I ordered my 3-3's without any doubt they would perform how he and everyone else on the forum said they would.
That being said, I'm not a mechanic, so I had a very good mechanic install them as per Howard's instructions. I've never thought about them again because they perform flawlessly. They are by far the best thing I've ever done to my bike, period.
Howard took more time with me than anyone I ever purchased anything from...EVER. I really appreciated the time he took, and he is an expert at what he does. We talked about "Bagger Wobble" for quite a while as well and I just took in all the information I could while he was willing to offer it. He didn't have to spend more than a minute with me in order for me to purchase my 2nd pair of Ohlins, but he did without rushing me off the phone. THAT would have pissed me off, if anything.
Just think of the "sales guys" we've encountered in the HD aftermarket or service world who were probably selling shoes the week prior to us asking them a question...(nothing against shoe salesmen because some of these guys give shoe salesmen a bad name)
I wish there were more people as informed about what we all spend a lot of $$$ on out there. I get more good information from members on this forum than any "tech" I've ever spoken to. Howard just just sent me a detailed email about when my shocks were going to be shipped while he was in Daytona to let me know they were on their way.
I never got that from anyone else over a weekend.
I've been waiting to do this next thing for a long time now....
"Just my .02"
Buy some Ohlins from Howard. They're amazing.
I just ordered my 2nd set of 3-3's, this pair is for my '14 SG. I wouldn't think of putting anything else on my bike. Then again, even with somewhat of a bad taste in his mouth, neither would OP. It was good to see OP acknowledge that fact.
Honestly, when I spoke to Howard the first time around in 2010, I just listened and got as much of an education as I could. In the end, I ordered my 3-3's without any doubt they would perform how he and everyone else on the forum said they would.
That being said, I'm not a mechanic, so I had a very good mechanic install them as per Howard's instructions. I've never thought about them again because they perform flawlessly. They are by far the best thing I've ever done to my bike, period.
Howard took more time with me than anyone I ever purchased anything from...EVER. I really appreciated the time he took, and he is an expert at what he does. We talked about "Bagger Wobble" for quite a while as well and I just took in all the information I could while he was willing to offer it. He didn't have to spend more than a minute with me in order for me to purchase my 2nd pair of Ohlins, but he did without rushing me off the phone. THAT would have pissed me off, if anything.
Just think of the "sales guys" we've encountered in the HD aftermarket or service world who were probably selling shoes the week prior to us asking them a question...(nothing against shoe salesmen because some of these guys give shoe salesmen a bad name)
I wish there were more people as informed about what we all spend a lot of $$$ on out there. I get more good information from members on this forum than any "tech" I've ever spoken to. Howard just just sent me a detailed email about when my shocks were going to be shipped while he was in Daytona to let me know they were on their way.
I never got that from anyone else over a weekend.
I've been waiting to do this next thing for a long time now....
"Just my .02"
Buy some Ohlins from Howard. They're amazing.
#104
10-13-2013, 01:58 PM
Moderator
Don't be so quick to judge a book by its cover or to make an assumption.
#105
10-13-2013, 02:17 PM
I think Howard and his shocks are the best. No doubt. But I do want to tell him this.
I'm 6 foot, 235 lbs, I ride hard and mainly highway, solo. Lots of twists on Occasion in NJ.
Now sell me the shocks I need and let's be done with it.
I tried his website a year ago and couldn't navigate it. Is that just me? Perhaps but please just sell me what I need. I don't have time to make this a science project nor do I care to become a suspension expert.
And I'll reiterate Howard is the best but I don't understand the need to know anything beyond the bike, my weight, how I ride as I mentioned.
If you can do that you have another customer. If not I respectfully understand.
I just don't have time for all the science lessons.
I'm 6 foot, 235 lbs, I ride hard and mainly highway, solo. Lots of twists on Occasion in NJ.
Now sell me the shocks I need and let's be done with it.
I tried his website a year ago and couldn't navigate it. Is that just me? Perhaps but please just sell me what I need. I don't have time to make this a science project nor do I care to become a suspension expert.
And I'll reiterate Howard is the best but I don't understand the need to know anything beyond the bike, my weight, how I ride as I mentioned.
If you can do that you have another customer. If not I respectfully understand.
I just don't have time for all the science lessons.
#106
10-13-2013, 02:29 PM
I work with "People" all the time in manufacturing and at the corporate level , it's pretty simple.
The ones that talk a great game, can dance on the head of a pin, can sell Ice to Eskimos, has an answer for every freaking question, is never wrong and repeats what he hears or reads and really dont know jack ****....The SALE PERSON!
Then you have the guy that gets dirty, leaves a few bodies behind when dealing with customers, knows the internal operation of the product like the back of his D**K, can talk details about it, uses it, could care less about the kind of suit or tie he has in the closet, if he even owns one, is passionate about his work, available to you anytime of the week, often misunderstood, is a great guy once you get to know him/her and let's the product sell itself. Well...that would be a guy such as HOWARD.
From my personal experience this weekend, I can tell you that at no time did he ASSume I knew anything about shocks and we did the Shock 101 on the PC looking at the same information on line. Is it confusing for the average person... Hell Yes, but with a phone call and the ability to talk to Howard with your BIG BOY pants on, you will get the info you need. First meet was a little tight but that lasted about 4 minutes and we both where cracking jokes.
Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to have had the one on one experience. However, I've experienced the same personalities, actually worse in the car tuning world. Try dealing with some of the arrogant SOB's that tune high performance cars. Their motto: Either you want it or you don't. They eventually get a front person to answer the calls. One who is nice, tells you YES all the time, works with you, strokes your ego, upsells you the wrong **** and BAM... you just spent more money....BUT you're happy because they where nice. I actually admire the guy who calls it like it is without the smokey mirrors. At least you know where he's coming from. He even offered to take me out for lunch and to a local bar. Too bad the weather was bad or I would of been right there.
Cheers!
PS: I'm not hanging on Howards nut sac. I'm just giving my personal feedback as a result of first hand experience with him and a lot of experience with people in the performance industry.
The ones that talk a great game, can dance on the head of a pin, can sell Ice to Eskimos, has an answer for every freaking question, is never wrong and repeats what he hears or reads and really dont know jack ****....The SALE PERSON!
Then you have the guy that gets dirty, leaves a few bodies behind when dealing with customers, knows the internal operation of the product like the back of his D**K, can talk details about it, uses it, could care less about the kind of suit or tie he has in the closet, if he even owns one, is passionate about his work, available to you anytime of the week, often misunderstood, is a great guy once you get to know him/her and let's the product sell itself. Well...that would be a guy such as HOWARD.
From my personal experience this weekend, I can tell you that at no time did he ASSume I knew anything about shocks and we did the Shock 101 on the PC looking at the same information on line. Is it confusing for the average person... Hell Yes, but with a phone call and the ability to talk to Howard with your BIG BOY pants on, you will get the info you need. First meet was a little tight but that lasted about 4 minutes and we both where cracking jokes.
Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to have had the one on one experience. However, I've experienced the same personalities, actually worse in the car tuning world. Try dealing with some of the arrogant SOB's that tune high performance cars. Their motto: Either you want it or you don't. They eventually get a front person to answer the calls. One who is nice, tells you YES all the time, works with you, strokes your ego, upsells you the wrong **** and BAM... you just spent more money....BUT you're happy because they where nice. I actually admire the guy who calls it like it is without the smokey mirrors. At least you know where he's coming from. He even offered to take me out for lunch and to a local bar. Too bad the weather was bad or I would of been right there.
Cheers!
PS: I'm not hanging on Howards nut sac. I'm just giving my personal feedback as a result of first hand experience with him and a lot of experience with people in the performance industry.
#107
10-13-2013, 02:35 PM
I think Howard and his shocks are the best. No doubt. But I do want to tell him this.
I'm 6 foot, 235 lbs, I ride hard and mainly highway, solo. Lots of twists on Occasion in NJ.
Now sell me the shocks I need and let's be done with it.
I tried his website a year ago and couldn't navigate it. Is that just me? Perhaps but please just sell me what I need. I don't have time to make this a science project nor do I care to become a suspension expert.
And I'll reiterate Howard is the best but I don't understand the need to know anything beyond the bike, my weight, how I ride as I mentioned.
If you can do that you have another customer. If not I respectfully understand.
I just don't have time for all the science lessons.
I'm 6 foot, 235 lbs, I ride hard and mainly highway, solo. Lots of twists on Occasion in NJ.
Now sell me the shocks I need and let's be done with it.
I tried his website a year ago and couldn't navigate it. Is that just me? Perhaps but please just sell me what I need. I don't have time to make this a science project nor do I care to become a suspension expert.
And I'll reiterate Howard is the best but I don't understand the need to know anything beyond the bike, my weight, how I ride as I mentioned.
If you can do that you have another customer. If not I respectfully understand.
I just don't have time for all the science lessons.
I don't get why you posted it here. Call Howard and tell him. Or, if you don't want to take the extra advice and learning that comes with Howard, there are plenty of shock-in-a-box vendors that you can just say 6' 235#, gimme my box. Not being a dick.. Well maybe I am, but it is what it is and if you don't like the process, get brand "B".
#108
10-13-2013, 02:40 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
I didn't want to eat up Mr Messner's time on the phone so emailed, then he told me to call.
He taught me how to decide on what I want. We talked in depth and he communicated on a level that I needed, and I ended up with a glimpse into how he thinks and proceeds, his whole suspension philosophy. He gave me all this info like a passionate scientist does. We were talking about his favorite subject and he treated me like a peer. For 45 minutes Friday night after he closed. It was a conversation not a sales pitch.
I don't understand how a customer experience could ever get any better, unless I took his recommendation and we had the conversation in a strip bar.
He taught me how to decide on what I want. We talked in depth and he communicated on a level that I needed, and I ended up with a glimpse into how he thinks and proceeds, his whole suspension philosophy. He gave me all this info like a passionate scientist does. We were talking about his favorite subject and he treated me like a peer. For 45 minutes Friday night after he closed. It was a conversation not a sales pitch.
I don't understand how a customer experience could ever get any better, unless I took his recommendation and we had the conversation in a strip bar.
[quote=rwhisen;11869396]If you haven't had the experience why are you commenting?
Howard was great when I talked to him.
quote]
exactly
I'm commenting on the op's experience and because this is a forum..........Instead of telling that one guy about progressive products 'I don't sell junk' it might be better to say 'I sell what I believe to be a better engineered product which is higher quality and demands a higher price' .............
And that is the best advice. Until you experience Howard you should not pass or repeat judgement
#109
10-13-2013, 02:57 PM
I don't get why you posted it here. Call Howard and tell him. Or, if you don't want to take the extra advice and learning that comes with Howard, there are plenty of shock-in-a-box vendors that you can just say 6' 235#, gimme my box. Not being a dick.. Well maybe I am, but it is what it is and if you don't like the process, get brand "B".
Maybe for a medical procedure I'd go in depth regarding info but not for shocks.
Hey..my loss. Shock in a box? Lol everything we buy is in a box so to speak.
I don't like the process as you said but I want the shocks. I know their great shocks. I know Howard knows his stuff but I personally don't feel like making this a project and I don't understand why I have to talk to anyone when ordering them.
How different can a shock be which is set up for a solo rider, my weight, my bike, my type riding?
#110
10-13-2013, 04:29 PM
Moderator
If you talked to Howard you would know.