I know, they're powerful. I owned a VMax with a 1200cc engine and it would have run circles around this 2,300cc behemoth. Like I said, displacement means squat, at least to me.
By the way, I always enjoy some "action" after a ride.

 

I sincerely doubt weight is even remotely on HD's radar as a consideration.

Tradition and appearance? Absolutely. Weight? Not a chance.

They could shave 100lbs off any of the big twins and nobody would notice the difference in appearance, but they don't do it because members of the Church of Willie G. would lose their minds.

 

I do - its all the buyers who say they wont get one if HD goes liquid cooled.
A liquid cooled car? Nope - never have. Had my 72 Beetle overheat a few times, but nothing with a radiator.

Of course, I do such silly things as ensure proper coolant levels and I make sure to follow maintenance intervals...
Really? Like what? Honestly - i'd love to hear what the "whole bunch of problems" are. This of course assumes proper maintenance. If you choose not to properly maintain your bike and it breaks, that's your own fault.

 

I guess that is like saying a bike with security, ABS, Cruise Control, maintained correctly will not have added problems. Yet, you only have to read this forum once a day to see that the added complexity of our bikes created added maintenance and problems. My cruise is acting up and I don't even think about replacing my brake fluid anymore because of the ABS. I imagine the 1995 Touring Maintenance Manual is half as thick as my 2009 manual. How many more pages will be added with water cooling. We can only imagine the fixes for the water cooled engine that will come from the problems found during the first year.

This discussion reminds me why the Navy chose to keep the radial aircooled engine on all their airplanes during WWII because of their relabilty against failures and to save form the added maintenance of the watercooled engines the Air Forces (Army Air Corp) was experiencing. The Air Force needed twice the skills and twice the space to maintain their airplane as a result of the added complexity of the engines they were using. The Navy was willing to sacrifice performance of their planes for the reliability of the engines.

Based from my buddy's experience with his Honda, he spends a lot of time on his water pump, hoses, and fluids. And funny enough, he still has to watch his water temp on a hot day when he spends too much time at stop lights. Those of us with Air Cooled engines don't mind keeping him company while his coolant temp falls to a usuable level. After all, we are friends, but he should have bought a Harley.

Don't get me wrong, I see the future coming and I accept that, but lets not kid ourselves, a water cooled engine will bring more complexity, weight and problems comparied to the previous Harley Vtwin engines. It is the nature of the beast, but I am confident that MOCO will eventually get it right, I am still amazed how cool my 03 corvette runs in the hot Oklahoma summer comparied to older vetts with the reputation for running hot.

Honestly, if it not for the handleing of the new frame and ABS, I would be satisfied with a 88 twincam.

Beary

 

Are you suggesting that HD replaces metal by chrome plastic and uses flimsy ABS for their TourPak and saddlebags like their japanese competitors? They can also stop putting clearcoat on the saddlebags, like for my old water cooled Kawasaki Nomad .................. which was as hot as my Ultra in stop and go traffic.

 

I can assure you that liquid cooled engines overheat too, and it's not just a result of poor maintenance. You CAN push an engine to the point where the cooling system cannot compensate.

 

I'm suggesting they could go to an aluminum frame, plastic fenders, and perhaps drop a little of the chrome, yes. Those changes alone would drop over 100lbs from the bike.

BTW, they already use ABS for the tour pack and bags.

 

Yes, of course you can, but to claim the mere addition of water cooling, a concept which is pretty well mature and proven in cars, would somehow become a massive problem is irrational.

Might HD **** it up? Sure. Would the problem be water cooling in and of itself, or the fact that HD made a mistake?

Look at the Revolution motor. Reliable, stable, smooth, smaller than the TwinCam and a hell of a lot more power - lighter too - and oh yeah, water cooled.

 

Revolution motor does not have that Harley feel or sound to me, might as well buy a Honda if that is the path they are going.

 

Liquid cooling and cruise/abs/security are completely different issues.

You want to compare something that happened when the aircraft industry was still relatively new to a modern day bike? There are a variety of other reasons the Navy would have kept radial air cooled engines in the middle of a war - no room for techs, no time to train em, no room for the added coolant and parts which would be needed, spares not exactly being close by, etc. They accepted the lower performance envelope in exchange for the lower man-power and storage requirements.

Yes, the air-cooled idea is nice. Yes, it is more reliable - no argument. However, with the reality that emissions requirements are becoming more and more stringent, and the plain fact that all of HD's competition is producing far more power, HD is eventually going to have to make the switch. No real way around it.