Power Duals - Fitting Advice Wanted
#11
03-07-2011, 02:45 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#13
03-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#14
03-13-2011, 11:29 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK Finally got everything bolted down, guess total time to remove old pipes, fit SE Air filter and PC-V was around 5 hours (including coffee Breaks). A second pair of hands for removal and fitting of the headers is useful.
Difficult parts:
Removal - None really, by was up on Hydraulic bike lift to easy to get to everything, some of the Hex bolts for the Footplate were tight (think I will keep my eyes out for a cheap set of HEX sockets) using the allen key, also front manifold upper nut needs to be removed with a spanner as my sockets would not fit.
If fitting the PC-V you will need to purchase a set of O2 bungs if not fit your OE 02 to the new headers - On my European exhaust I noted that the position of the 02 sensor for the rear cylinder is in a different location on the V&H - Not sure if this affects the O2 cable length.
Fitting V&H headers - Follow the V&H instructions as written, most difficult part is the replacement side bracket which uses the two existing hex bolts - As instructed DO NOT TIGHTEN FIRST OFF, as the two bolts through the new bracket to the exhaust seem to be quite fine tolerance. Once you have the Hex bolts fully tightened you will be fitting the headers, the two bolts that hold the headers to the plate need to be tightened by spanner up from underneath the bracket, this is really tight but just possible see pic 0040 - I needed to drop the bike down onto the side stand as the lift was in the way to access the bolts.
The Circlips on the old manifold were easily removed (I let my son do one just to make sure I was not just lucky), simply remove as you would a tyre from a rim and the same to fit on the new headers.
Remove the old HD exhaust port gaskets, at first it appears there is no gasket, so use a small screwdriver to remove, use the new V&H gaskets - these are totally different to the HD units in shape and material. Tighten as per Da Butchers Torque info earlier in the thread, using a spanner to guess the torque unless your lucky enough to own a torque spanner set.
Fit the Mufflers.
Tighten the heat shield brackets - I worked front to back and had no issues.
Give things a good clean down as recommended to prevent burning in an marks on your new chrome.
As I fitted a PC-V and SE Air Filter at the same time it is impossible for me to say exactly what the performance of just the Power Duals is, however the whole package if a distinct jump over stock. I now seem to have more power over the full range, a slightly different exhaust note that is quite controlled and sounds balanced now. I already had Monster Ovals fitted, but things seem a little louder, but this may be my perception because I have not run her up over the winter.
Oh, and they look fantastic, real Muscle Bike look to the exhaust as someone described them in another post.
Will post a Picture when I can get her in some Sunshine.
Difficult parts:
Removal - None really, by was up on Hydraulic bike lift to easy to get to everything, some of the Hex bolts for the Footplate were tight (think I will keep my eyes out for a cheap set of HEX sockets) using the allen key, also front manifold upper nut needs to be removed with a spanner as my sockets would not fit.
If fitting the PC-V you will need to purchase a set of O2 bungs if not fit your OE 02 to the new headers - On my European exhaust I noted that the position of the 02 sensor for the rear cylinder is in a different location on the V&H - Not sure if this affects the O2 cable length.
Fitting V&H headers - Follow the V&H instructions as written, most difficult part is the replacement side bracket which uses the two existing hex bolts - As instructed DO NOT TIGHTEN FIRST OFF, as the two bolts through the new bracket to the exhaust seem to be quite fine tolerance. Once you have the Hex bolts fully tightened you will be fitting the headers, the two bolts that hold the headers to the plate need to be tightened by spanner up from underneath the bracket, this is really tight but just possible see pic 0040 - I needed to drop the bike down onto the side stand as the lift was in the way to access the bolts.
The Circlips on the old manifold were easily removed (I let my son do one just to make sure I was not just lucky), simply remove as you would a tyre from a rim and the same to fit on the new headers.
Remove the old HD exhaust port gaskets, at first it appears there is no gasket, so use a small screwdriver to remove, use the new V&H gaskets - these are totally different to the HD units in shape and material. Tighten as per Da Butchers Torque info earlier in the thread, using a spanner to guess the torque unless your lucky enough to own a torque spanner set.
Fit the Mufflers.
Tighten the heat shield brackets - I worked front to back and had no issues.
Give things a good clean down as recommended to prevent burning in an marks on your new chrome.
As I fitted a PC-V and SE Air Filter at the same time it is impossible for me to say exactly what the performance of just the Power Duals is, however the whole package if a distinct jump over stock. I now seem to have more power over the full range, a slightly different exhaust note that is quite controlled and sounds balanced now. I already had Monster Ovals fitted, but things seem a little louder, but this may be my perception because I have not run her up over the winter.
Oh, and they look fantastic, real Muscle Bike look to the exhaust as someone described them in another post.
Will post a Picture when I can get her in some Sunshine.
Last edited by mrbluffo; 03-13-2011 at 11:33 AM.
#16
03-13-2011, 05:48 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just installed a PC-V from Jamie at FuelMoto, install was a snip @ 5 minutes, complete map for the headers/mufflers and SE filter supplied installed.
#17
03-13-2011, 05:58 PM
Awesome looking BLUFFO... wow .. 5 hours... I already bought my Power Duals.. just need my bike now.... How difficult was is to align the heat shields for perfect fit and alignment ??? I dont have a bike lift so would you say its easier if i do the install on the Jiffy stand instead of raising bike ??,,,
what size were your bungs on your Power duals.. i was told mine are 12mm so i wouldnt need any adapters...
i emailed V&H asking about the o2 sensors... here is what they replyed...
Our header pipes do have the 12mm O2 sensor ports, and will work with the factory O2 sensor length.
There are very important reasons why the rear cylinder O2 sensor had to be located at that position. We did very extensive research and tried all sorts of locations but that was the one that would function the best with the configuration of the ECM program. 09 and earlier O2 sensors where not "self-heat activated". They required actual heat from exhaust flow to be activated, that is why they where located so close up to the heads so they can reach that heat activation temperature as soon as possible. The new 2010 O2 sensors are "self-heat activated", where they have an internal activation device that will heat them up instantaneously for them to work in conjunction with the ECM. The main reason why Harley relocated them further down on the head pipe is because if they where located up close by the heads, condensation will build up on the O2 sensors causing them to trip trouble codes on the ECM, therefore not function correctly. That is the same reason why we did not locate them at that position as well.
Now here is the explanation why we did not locate them where Harley locates them on the stock head pipes. On the stock head pipes, there is a catalytic converter on the collector section, where there is an internal division for the exhaust flow from each head. Each O2 sensor works independently with the exhaust flow from each head. On the collector chamber of the Power Duals, there is nothing inside that divides the exhaust flow from each cylinder, so the exhaust flow from both cylinders combine. For this reason, we where not able to place the O2 sensors in or after the collector chamber, being that the combination of exhaust flow from both heads would contaminate the heating device of the O2 sensors and the ECM would activate a trouble code on the dash.
Our R&D department tried every single position possible on that head pipe to make it look as clean as possible, allowing the O2 sensors to function properly without signaling any trouble codes, or jeopardizing the performance of the motor. This is the ONLY location that allowed us to do this.
--
what size were your bungs on your Power duals.. i was told mine are 12mm so i wouldnt need any adapters...
i emailed V&H asking about the o2 sensors... here is what they replyed...
Our header pipes do have the 12mm O2 sensor ports, and will work with the factory O2 sensor length.
There are very important reasons why the rear cylinder O2 sensor had to be located at that position. We did very extensive research and tried all sorts of locations but that was the one that would function the best with the configuration of the ECM program. 09 and earlier O2 sensors where not "self-heat activated". They required actual heat from exhaust flow to be activated, that is why they where located so close up to the heads so they can reach that heat activation temperature as soon as possible. The new 2010 O2 sensors are "self-heat activated", where they have an internal activation device that will heat them up instantaneously for them to work in conjunction with the ECM. The main reason why Harley relocated them further down on the head pipe is because if they where located up close by the heads, condensation will build up on the O2 sensors causing them to trip trouble codes on the ECM, therefore not function correctly. That is the same reason why we did not locate them at that position as well.
Now here is the explanation why we did not locate them where Harley locates them on the stock head pipes. On the stock head pipes, there is a catalytic converter on the collector section, where there is an internal division for the exhaust flow from each head. Each O2 sensor works independently with the exhaust flow from each head. On the collector chamber of the Power Duals, there is nothing inside that divides the exhaust flow from each cylinder, so the exhaust flow from both cylinders combine. For this reason, we where not able to place the O2 sensors in or after the collector chamber, being that the combination of exhaust flow from both heads would contaminate the heating device of the O2 sensors and the ECM would activate a trouble code on the dash.
Our R&D department tried every single position possible on that head pipe to make it look as clean as possible, allowing the O2 sensors to function properly without signaling any trouble codes, or jeopardizing the performance of the motor. This is the ONLY location that allowed us to do this.
--
Last edited by papifun; 03-13-2011 at 06:06 PM.
#18
03-13-2011, 06:18 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Awesome looking BLUFFO... wow .. 5 hours... I already bought my Power Duals.. just need my bike now.... How difficult was is to align the heat shields for perfect fit and alignment ??? I dont have a bike lift so would you say its easier if i do the install on the Jiffy stand instead of raising bike ??,,,
what size were your bungs on your Power duals.. i was told mine are 12mm so i wouldnt need any adapters...
i emailed V&H asking about the o2 sensors... here is what they replyed...
Our header pipes do have the 12mm O2 sensor ports, and will work with the factory O2 sensor length.
There are very important reasons why the rear cylinder O2 sensor had to be located at that position. We did very extensive research and tried all sorts of locations but that was the one that would function the best with the configuration of the ECM program. 09 and earlier O2 sensors where not "self-heat activated". They required actual heat from exhaust flow to be activated, that is why they where located so close up to the heads so they can reach that heat activation temperature as soon as possible. The new 2010 O2 sensors are "self-heat activated", where they have an internal activation device that will heat them up instantaneously for them to work in conjunction with the ECM. The main reason why Harley relocated them further down on the head pipe is because if they where located up close by the heads, condensation will build up on the O2 sensors causing them to trip trouble codes on the ECM, therefore not function correctly. That is the same reason why we did not locate them at that position as well.
Now here is the explanation why we did not locate them where Harley locates them on the stock head pipes. On the stock head pipes, there is a catalytic converter on the collector section, where there is an internal division for the exhaust flow from each head. Each O2 sensor works independently with the exhaust flow from each head. On the collector chamber of the Power Duals, there is nothing inside that divides the exhaust flow from each cylinder, so the exhaust flow from both cylinders combine. For this reason, we where not able to place the O2 sensors in or after the collector chamber, being that the combination of exhaust flow from both heads would contaminate the heating device of the O2 sensors and the ECM would activate a trouble code on the dash.
Our R&D department tried every single position possible on that head pipe to make it look as clean as possible, allowing the O2 sensors to function properly without signaling any trouble codes, or jeopardizing the performance of the motor. This is the ONLY location that allowed us to do this.
--
what size were your bungs on your Power duals.. i was told mine are 12mm so i wouldnt need any adapters...
i emailed V&H asking about the o2 sensors... here is what they replyed...
Our header pipes do have the 12mm O2 sensor ports, and will work with the factory O2 sensor length.
There are very important reasons why the rear cylinder O2 sensor had to be located at that position. We did very extensive research and tried all sorts of locations but that was the one that would function the best with the configuration of the ECM program. 09 and earlier O2 sensors where not "self-heat activated". They required actual heat from exhaust flow to be activated, that is why they where located so close up to the heads so they can reach that heat activation temperature as soon as possible. The new 2010 O2 sensors are "self-heat activated", where they have an internal activation device that will heat them up instantaneously for them to work in conjunction with the ECM. The main reason why Harley relocated them further down on the head pipe is because if they where located up close by the heads, condensation will build up on the O2 sensors causing them to trip trouble codes on the ECM, therefore not function correctly. That is the same reason why we did not locate them at that position as well.
Now here is the explanation why we did not locate them where Harley locates them on the stock head pipes. On the stock head pipes, there is a catalytic converter on the collector section, where there is an internal division for the exhaust flow from each head. Each O2 sensor works independently with the exhaust flow from each head. On the collector chamber of the Power Duals, there is nothing inside that divides the exhaust flow from each cylinder, so the exhaust flow from both cylinders combine. For this reason, we where not able to place the O2 sensors in or after the collector chamber, being that the combination of exhaust flow from both heads would contaminate the heating device of the O2 sensors and the ECM would activate a trouble code on the dash.
Our R&D department tried every single position possible on that head pipe to make it look as clean as possible, allowing the O2 sensors to function properly without signaling any trouble codes, or jeopardizing the performance of the motor. This is the ONLY location that allowed us to do this.
--
The heat shields were easy, as per the instructions they are loosely fit before installing the headers, it's then just a simple alignment job to hide the clip heads.
I guess you could do this all on the side stand, it just made things easier using the lift, but I still had to place on the side stand to get to the side bracket bolts for tightening.
Nice info on the O2 sensors.
#19
03-13-2011, 06:27 PM
Chrome cover advice........
Dry fit pipe to figure out how everthing will line up into place.
Place bath towels, bed sheets somethng clean and soft on floor, and assemble chrome covers starting at the from and work to the back, install clamps hand tight and make sure all of the screw heads are facing down or outwards so that you can get to them easy with a nut driver or 1/4 inch drive socket, the x cover is the last theing you put on.
Install header loose, refit as you go, then once everything is on and torqured to spec, the last this to do is re-fit covers and final tighten of hose clamps.
Be very carefull of the chrome, it will scratch real easy......
Ride On.......
Dry fit pipe to figure out how everthing will line up into place.
Place bath towels, bed sheets somethng clean and soft on floor, and assemble chrome covers starting at the from and work to the back, install clamps hand tight and make sure all of the screw heads are facing down or outwards so that you can get to them easy with a nut driver or 1/4 inch drive socket, the x cover is the last theing you put on.
Install header loose, refit as you go, then once everything is on and torqured to spec, the last this to do is re-fit covers and final tighten of hose clamps.
Be very carefull of the chrome, it will scratch real easy......
Ride On.......
#20
03-13-2011, 11:44 PM
I had a helluva time trying to get the damn crush gaskets to stay in place as I wiggled the exhaust on. I'm glad I took some time (and had bad weather) during my install, because I took my time, and it demanded a lot of time....
Damn the do look sweet though and were worth all the sweating and swearing trying to get the damn things on!!!
Damn the do look sweet though and were worth all the sweating and swearing trying to get the damn things on!!!