Touring Models Road King, Road King Custom, Road King Classic, Road Glide, Street Glide, Electra Glide, Electra Glide Classic, and Electra Glide Ultra Classic bikes.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Ethanol and Harleys

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 01-24-2011, 01:42 PM
KingCripps's Avatar
KingCripps
KingCripps is offline
Tourer
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

I very seldom run anything with ethanol in it for many reasons, some philosophical and some real. Citgo here in WI has high octane without ethanol and so does the Kwik Trip chain. Kwik Trip markets it as "recreational" gasoline. (Yea, I know, deal with Chavez's Citgo or deal with the ag lobby that has pushed corn from food to gas to boost prices, I really don't know which is the worst)
 
  #12  
Old 01-24-2011, 01:58 PM
Firetender's Avatar
Firetender
Firetender is offline
Road Warrior
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

EtOH hurts your mileage because your engine is not optimized to burn alcohol. Because of the compression limits needed to prevent “engine knock”, a typical gasoline engine can only deliver about 25% efficiency — only 25% of the BTU's in a gallon of gasoline are converted to mechanical energy that turns the wheels of the bike, the other 75% is lost in waste heat. An Alcohol Engine can deliver about 40% efficiency — 40% of the BTU's in a gallon of ethanol powering an Alcohol Engine will produce mechanical energy that gets you down the road.
 
  #13  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:07 PM
blusmbl's Avatar
blusmbl
blusmbl is offline
Road Warrior
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Detroit, the asshole of America
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Of note, the pumps you're filling up at can have up to 10% ethanol content without having to disclose it. 10% or greater the sticker has to be on the pump, though.
 
  #14  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:20 PM
Buddy WMC's Avatar
Buddy WMC
Buddy WMC is offline
Road Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: S.W. Florida
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by jackthebiker
I use Shell 93 octane, no ethanol, no doubts.
In Florida all the Shell 93 octane pumps are labled 10% ethanol. I try to use the same station locally, always the same pump and look for three hose stations when tripping. I also add Startron to my fuel. It's supposed to help with the aclohol mixing with the gasoline, gives a better burn and protects like Stabil.
 
  #15  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:52 PM
MareRider's Avatar
MareRider
MareRider is offline
Tourer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central IN
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Firetender
EtOH hurts your mileage because your engine is not optimized to burn alcohol. Because of the compression limits needed to prevent “engine knock”, a typical gasoline engine can only deliver about 25% efficiency — only 25% of the BTU's in a gallon of gasoline are converted to mechanical energy that turns the wheels of the bike, the other 75% is lost in waste heat. An Alcohol Engine can deliver about 40% efficiency — 40% of the BTU's in a gallon of ethanol powering an Alcohol Engine will produce mechanical energy that gets you down the road.
...But there is more energy in gasoline than in ethanol. Takes more eth/gas fuel to get the same amount of energy as straight gas. That's why the MPG goes down.
 
  #16  
Old 01-24-2011, 03:10 PM
fabrik8r's Avatar
fabrik8r
fabrik8r is offline
Outstanding HDF Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes on 21 Posts
Default

NC, and others I’m sure, does not require labeling for ethanol. Blending is not regulated by any gov’t agency; it can be blended via an accurate ethanol/gas mixing manifold, or a "best guess" method of adding X gallons of ethanol to X gallons of gasoline already in the ground tank at the station. Either way, the resulting mixture is not routinely tested, monitored, or validated in any way to ensure the consumer is getting E10. The current blending procedures and margin for error has the potential to allow up to 20% in your E10. But how would you know? Oh yeah, carry around a test kit. My knowledge is second hand so find somebody who drives a re-fueling rig and ask them about it.
 
  #17  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:01 PM
AF Chief's Avatar
AF Chief
AF Chief is offline
Intermediate
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Warner Robins GA
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by GarboHD
Now that almost all gas contains some Ethanol, has this caused anyone any troubles? Do additives need to be added? The reason for the question is I recently had a friend that had the liner in the tank start peeling and caused all kinds of trouble. Could this be due to the Ethanol or something else?
I have been told by my brother who is a mechanic and rides a sportster that adding some octane booster would help.
 
  #18  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:27 PM
MikeySom's Avatar
MikeySom
MikeySom is offline
Road Captain
Veteran: Marine Corp
Join Date: May 2006
Location: S.I.N.Y.
Posts: 637
Received 394 Likes on 155 Posts
Default

All I can find here is 10% Ethenol Sunoco, Shell, Hess, Lucoil and it shows in my mileage about 34 mpg combo city/highway
 
  #19  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Firetender's Avatar
Firetender
Firetender is offline
Road Warrior
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MareRider
...But there is more energy in gasoline than in ethanol. Takes more eth/gas fuel to get the same amount of energy as straight gas. That's why the MPG goes down.
That's not true, because you're confusing BTU levels with energy efficiency. BTU levels are the amount of energy it takes to boil water, not to combust and turn a crank with the pressure. Ethanol-optimized engines can get the same or better mileage than a gasoline-optimized engine. Ethanol produces less mpg in a gasoline-optimized engine because the engine is not set up to run ethanol efficiently (not set up to take advantage of EtOH's superior combustion advantages). Ethanol (EtOH) is more efficient tha gasoline but you must change the setup of the engine to take advantage of it, just as you would have to change the alcohol engine to burn gasoline efficiently. We have gasoline engines today instead of alcohol engines because during motoring's golden years, gasoline was cheaper and also because it was illegal to possess between 1920 and 1933. Yes my background is mostly organic chemistry.
 

Last edited by Firetender; 01-24-2011 at 04:32 PM.
  #20  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:39 PM
fabrik8r's Avatar
fabrik8r
fabrik8r is offline
Outstanding HDF Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 31 Likes on 21 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Firetender
That's not true, because you're confusing BTU levels with energy efficiency. BTU levels are the amount of energy it takes to boil water, not to combust and turn a crank with the pressure. Ethanol-optimized engines can get the same or better mileage than a gasoline-optimized engine. Ethanol produces less mpg in a gasoline-optimized engine because the engine is not set up to run ethanol efficiently (not set up to take advantage of EtOH's superior combustion advantages). Ethanol (EtOH) is more efficient tha gasoline but you must change the setup of the engine to take advantage of it, just as you would have to change the alcohol engine to burn gasoline efficiently. We have gasoline engines today instead of alcohol engines because during motoring's golden years, gasoline was cheaper and also because it was illegal to possess between 1920 and 1933. Yes my background is mostly organic chemistry.
Not questioning your knowledge about fuels, but could you expound on the term "set up". How exactly do you modify, or set up, a gasoline engine for optimal performance on ethanol or E10?
 


Quick Reply: Ethanol and Harleys



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.