Originally Posted by Holster Maker

I know what you are saying Ed, but I agree with others in the "Drill Baby Drill" thread about the sensors being contained with-in there own pipe (exhaust) from the motor. I can't see where the "cross talk" would come into play from just gutting the cat. Matter-of-fact your (fullsac) picture shows proof of this separation and with the cat it would even be worst with exhaust backing-up creating cross talk for the sensor's readings. That sensor reading is taken immediately as the exhaust passes by, which shows it with-in the pipe from #2.
I respect all you write, sounds like you know what's going down, but maybe this was another problem all together, you know how stuff gets twisted sometimes.
I agree if the sensors where contained with-in their own complete pipe, like JackPots, etc it would be better......separate pipe sensors, no doubt then!
Carry-on bro, just my personal thought.

Originally Posted by eddfive

Not a single hit because a "gutted" pipe may and may not work. I have yet to see one work correctly. The OEM sensors will and can get wrong gas flow information.

The issue is definitely there. It really depends on the restriction of the muffler. I had (2) (2010 and 2011)bikes back to back tuned same day. One had SE muflers with a gutted cat and the other had Rinehart mufflers with the gutted cat. These cats were removed by Amercian !!! someone, cut, gutted and re-welded. With the tuning all done, and in open loop the Target and Actual AFR/Lambda values line up spot on. While running the bike with cruise on and in closed loop I could see and verify that one of the cylinders was tuning/running itself leaner. Not right away but the longer I ran the bike the leaner it got on the one cylinder. The SE muffler was bad enough that I talked with the customer and we/he decided to open loop the AFR/Lambda table eveywhere. The other bike with the Rinehart mufflers also showed the same lean out but not to the same extent as the SE muffler. The Rinehart was "border" line in my opinion so I left it up to the customer and he chose to go open loop. I ran it on the dyno in cruise for 10- 15 minutes and saw the cylinder Actual AFR/Lambda values drifting from the Target, I have no way of knowing how far it will drift when the bike is on a 2000 mile trip , in other words how lean will it get? Will it get lean enough to cause a heat problem, I have no way of knowing??

I look at it this way, I would not "gut" the cat if it was my bike. Let's see I spend $25-$40K for a bike, a new head pipe from FM or FS is $400-500, and it fits and looks just like stock when done. Seems like a no brainer to me but then this is JMHO.

Just as a side note, the bikes I tune that have the FM or FS head pipe when cruising with the bike in Closed loop the Target versus Actual AFR/Lambda data is always spot on. I have seen no dift in either of these head pipes.

Originally Posted by jeg1

If you run a gutted head pipe with a Power Commander V am I right in thinking this is not an issue since the 02 sensors are not being used?

Originally Posted by traveler

Again....it worked great.

I only changed it, becasue I wanted an auto tuner, and needed the 18mm bungs.

I think some of you are overthinking this.

If you want a tad bit more sound, and run about 20 degrees cooler...this will do it. The stock mufflers will keep the back pressure at more than adequate levels.

I keep saying it WORKS, and have done it...yet people keep telling me it doesn't. That tells me they are either having a hard time understanding what I'm saying, or I am a liar.

~Joe

Originally Posted by tjrider99

I'm a new member so I hope this subject isn't beat to death. I just stopped in at the dealer to look at my new 2011 FLHX Street Glide 103" and they told me that in 2011 the catalytic converter was moved from the head pipe to the mufflers. Does anyone know for sure if that is true? I'm planning on adding some slip on mufflers in a month or so and just wondered if I'll be getting rid of the CATs by doing so....I'm hoping!
Snow in Indiana sucks!

Originally Posted by dnitram

That's about right for a dealer. Here in Atlanta, I had the owner of Earl Smalls and Cartersville HD tell me that they did away with catalytic converters in 2011 because the o2 sensors did such a great job of controlling emissions. I had to bite my tongue on that one! LOL!! Just the night before I had taken the stock head pipe (yes, with the catalytic converter in it) and replaced it with one from American Custom (gutted cat). A comment from the owner, Mark Hulsey, kind of made me wonder what else he didn't know about the bikes his own company sells. Really, it's kind of pitiful to tell the truth. When an owner is misinformed, it's no wonder the rest of those that work for him are also misinformed.

Originally Posted by Solitario

here in europe we have a lot of experiencie with cats because our bikes have then since 2006.

06, 07 and 08 bikes has the cat in the muffler, they used to be heavy muflers because of the cat and all the bullshit inside to quiet the bike. 09 and later touring bikes has the cat in the headpipe, righ in the 2-1-2 seccion. our mufflers still heavy because of the laberinth inside to quiet the bike. aur bikes are much quieter than epa levels, thats th f...ing euro 4 rule.

now with american 2011 bikes i think they are removing all the laberinth inside the mufler because the cat itself it is enought to meet epa requeriments. that is why 2011 sound a bit better than 10s

now im looking for some european 2008 stock mufflers with a cat inside because we need to pass smoke and security test every 2 years and 08 mufflers will do the trick and i wont have to remove header without cat I installed.

just and advice... if you want to know whats next in restriction and epa and grass-eaters rules take a look sometime to hd europe website or forums... we suffer those rules and worst allways a couple of years before you.

Originally Posted by Deuuuce

What you see vs. the reality of the sound is different. Again, I have a video of me starting the bike (stock 103) with NO mufflers and it is extremely loud.