To Dyno, or not to Dyno?
#31
11-16-2010, 10:35 PM
That's great news
jpalm, I don't know if Doc mentioned to you but you can send your SERT out to TTS and they will upgrade it for you. That's what I did and then had it tuned. Good luck
http://www.mastertune.net/SERTUpgrade.html
http://www.mastertune.net/SERTUpgrade.html
#32
11-16-2010, 11:32 PM
Thank you for the info. I saw the upgrade option, but wasn't sure if that's what they were referring too. Do you know if authorized dealers can do that at their facility, or does it have to be sent off? Also, I found my part number, it's 32109-08B. Never told Doc, so maybe there's a chance he's referring to a different HD tuner.
Give Doc a call and he can verify that yours is "upgradable" (has to be plugged into a laptop) and if it is, you send it off to TTS, I think they're in Compton, Ca. It takes about a week or so and $100 and you're all set.
#33
11-17-2010, 12:32 AM
I have a 2011 Ultra Limited. I'm very happy with my set-up. Dyno-Tuning might get me a touch more but I'll never know because I'm one of those guys that likes to do everything myself and I don't have access to a Dyno.
My set-up is from FuelMoto and includes the Jackpot 2-1-2 header, S.E. air cleaner, and the PCV w/AutoTune. I did install the Jackpot DynoTuned mufflers but changed back to stock mufflers (just my preference). My primary objectives were to cool the bike down and eliminate the pinging that was worse than any vehicle I've ever owned (2 or 4 wheeled).
Once everything was installed, I made several test runs (approx 20 miles each) putting the bike through every riding condition I could with this set-up. After each test run I downloaded, printed, and analyzed the AutoTune trim data. After 3 or 4 runs worth of data I averaged the trim values and then manually hardwired them into the base map. I repeated this process for several cycles until the AutoTune trim values were coming in consistently within +/- 2% maximum.
I love the AutoTune... it gives you some real data to base your changes upon.
Good thing I am retired because I spent a week and about 800 miles doing this tuning. Sure was fun though.
The bike is definitely running cooler and although I can't quantify it with torque and horsepower numbers, my pants seat tells me it's running stronger. The pinging is not completely gone but is dramatically improved. I'm going to continue playing with the ignition timing (which I haven't touched yet) to eliminate the pinging altogether. I'm just waiting for some warmer weather to make the timing changes because that's when the pinging is most prevalent.
All-n-all, I couldn't be happier with my set-up from FuelMoto. And their customer service is exemplary.
My set-up is from FuelMoto and includes the Jackpot 2-1-2 header, S.E. air cleaner, and the PCV w/AutoTune. I did install the Jackpot DynoTuned mufflers but changed back to stock mufflers (just my preference). My primary objectives were to cool the bike down and eliminate the pinging that was worse than any vehicle I've ever owned (2 or 4 wheeled).
Once everything was installed, I made several test runs (approx 20 miles each) putting the bike through every riding condition I could with this set-up. After each test run I downloaded, printed, and analyzed the AutoTune trim data. After 3 or 4 runs worth of data I averaged the trim values and then manually hardwired them into the base map. I repeated this process for several cycles until the AutoTune trim values were coming in consistently within +/- 2% maximum.
I love the AutoTune... it gives you some real data to base your changes upon.
Good thing I am retired because I spent a week and about 800 miles doing this tuning. Sure was fun though.
The bike is definitely running cooler and although I can't quantify it with torque and horsepower numbers, my pants seat tells me it's running stronger. The pinging is not completely gone but is dramatically improved. I'm going to continue playing with the ignition timing (which I haven't touched yet) to eliminate the pinging altogether. I'm just waiting for some warmer weather to make the timing changes because that's when the pinging is most prevalent.
All-n-all, I couldn't be happier with my set-up from FuelMoto. And their customer service is exemplary.
Last edited by 2black1s; 11-17-2010 at 12:41 AM.
#34
11-17-2010, 12:59 AM
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#35
11-17-2010, 06:48 AM
Extreme HDF Member
#36
11-17-2010, 07:27 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
Disclaimer: I know very little about tuning, tuning terms, AF ratios, etc. which is why I'm here. Please forgive me if I sound like a complete idiot. Now, onto the business at hand.
When I spoke with Doc, he told me that he will not do a tune with a SE tuner since TTS stopped making them because the settings on the new units will cause the engines to burn oil and pre-programmed AF limitations in the unit will not allow for an optimum tune. He also threw out some other technical mumbo jumbo that flew right over my head. However, given his stellar reputation amongst the members here and other places, combined with his resume, I took his word for it.
One more step I did take was to call the Harley dealership near his shop because he told me that they use him for their dyno tuning. I was curious as to why the Harley dealership would allow him to tune with non Harley tuners and, much to my surprise, the service manager there confirmed what Doc told me and also told me that SE tuners were not good for the bikes (didn't specify years, just said they weren't good).
When I spoke with Doc, he told me that he will not do a tune with a SE tuner since TTS stopped making them because the settings on the new units will cause the engines to burn oil and pre-programmed AF limitations in the unit will not allow for an optimum tune. He also threw out some other technical mumbo jumbo that flew right over my head. However, given his stellar reputation amongst the members here and other places, combined with his resume, I took his word for it.
One more step I did take was to call the Harley dealership near his shop because he told me that they use him for their dyno tuning. I was curious as to why the Harley dealership would allow him to tune with non Harley tuners and, much to my surprise, the service manager there confirmed what Doc told me and also told me that SE tuners were not good for the bikes (didn't specify years, just said they weren't good).
I believe that Doc was in with Steve Cole (to some capacity) during the development of the TTS and original SERT. (I'll be corrected if i'm wrong). Maybe that's why he doesn't like the SE products after SE ditched TTS.
As far as the computer locking up, yes, i've had problems with it, but after some computer upgrades we're all set. It's not the SEST it's the cababilities of the computer. There were alot of problems with the SERT and the TTS at first to, then it was discovered that some USB to serial port adapters weren't compatable with the software. But once that got discovered there's been no problems.
#37
11-17-2010, 07:28 AM
Perhaps using the term "burning up" was a mistake on my part. I definitely do not want to put words in people's mouths. He never specifically stated that the bike would leave the tuner and immediately die, only that the SERT is not a good tuning tool and can cause mechanical problems and/or failures. He did also mention the problem of the SERT locking up the computer and causing a tune to take much longer than it should.
I have never heard of the traditional sert (before upgrade) being an issue there. This is the way I remember it but I can't back that up with proof.
Do you know which version sert is involved here?
The sert is a fantastic tuning tool, for a tuner that knows what he's doing with it. It does however require more effort than some of the other alternatives,.... this alone makes some tuners shy away from them.
Call some other tuners for a more broad opinion base.
Can't always go by what just one source says.
#38
11-17-2010, 07:30 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
I'm thinking it's the upgraded sert or a newer version sert that caused the lock up computer problems.
I have never heard of the traditional sert (before upgrade) being an issue there. This is the way I remember it but I can't back that up with proof.
Do you know which version sert is involved here?
The sert is a fantastic tuning tool, for a tuner that knows what he's doing with it. It does however require more effort than some of the other alternatives,.... this alone makes some tuners shy away from them.
Call some other tuners for a more broad opinion base.
Can't always go by what just one source says.
I have never heard of the traditional sert (before upgrade) being an issue there. This is the way I remember it but I can't back that up with proof.
Do you know which version sert is involved here?
The sert is a fantastic tuning tool, for a tuner that knows what he's doing with it. It does however require more effort than some of the other alternatives,.... this alone makes some tuners shy away from them.
Call some other tuners for a more broad opinion base.
Can't always go by what just one source says.
#39
11-17-2010, 07:32 AM
#40
11-17-2010, 07:50 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
We mainly tune the SERT, SEST, SEPST, TTS and PC's. It's all what the tuner is comfortable with, like you said. And that's really just a matter of being familiar with the software. the main problem with the SEPST software is the compatability with the computer. We had some problems at first, but made some changes to the computer and it took care of them. We run a 2 monitor setup now and that really helps, and if you are running a USB hub because of to many USB devices that could be a problem as well.