HQ 107 motor refresh
#12
10-04-2010 | 06:51 AM
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,449
Likes: 44
From: Roswell, GA
MB, tuning is basically a process of adding fuel to eliminate ping, then advancing timing to reach pinging, then adding fuel to eliminate ping, then bumping timing to ping, then adding fuel to eliminate pinge, until you reach the point at which adding fuel does not eliminate ping. At that point 2-3* of timing are removed and tuning for that cell is done and you move on to the next cell. This is done for each cell (rpm/load) until all rpm/load cells are completed. Using the knock sensor, you can identify the specific cell(s) where you have ping and add fuel to eliminate the ping and, if that doesn't work, remove 2-3* of timing in that cell.
If this was done for each cell in a relatively cool and dry weather tune, when the ambient temperature rises significantly, you will get ping in the hotter weather because the air has less oxygen to support the timing that didn't experience ping in denser cool air.
Unless you just want to mess with the engine, I'd identify the cells with the ping and have the tuner go through the add fuel to remove ping or simply remove a couple of degress of timing if adding fuel doesn't eliminate the ping.
Carl
If this was done for each cell in a relatively cool and dry weather tune, when the ambient temperature rises significantly, you will get ping in the hotter weather because the air has less oxygen to support the timing that didn't experience ping in denser cool air.
Unless you just want to mess with the engine, I'd identify the cells with the ping and have the tuner go through the add fuel to remove ping or simply remove a couple of degress of timing if adding fuel doesn't eliminate the ping.
Carl
#13
10-04-2010 | 06:58 AM
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 0
From: Acworth, Ga
Im sorry.. Im only giving you a hard time..
Hoe you get it sorted out soon
BTW id stay clear of the acr's on a HD. If they dont work you CANT manually get to them like you can on a S&S in a open frame bike
Hoe you get it sorted out soon
BTW id stay clear of the acr's on a HD. If they dont work you CANT manually get to them like you can on a S&S in a open frame bike
Last edited by timvan; 10-04-2010 at 07:02 AM.
#14
10-04-2010 | 06:59 AM
Thread Starter
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Conroe Texas
Yes I understand this, the conditions were Miami traffic, temp on gauge was just over 100, humid as well, this is teh first time i been in Miami traffic since tune in these conditions. I dont think the tune can get any better that it is. I am convinced I did damage with the prior tunes I had from dealer, which made the bike a ping monster. Just wondering if refresh is worth it and can the rebore be done? Now I am also considering other cam maybe less radical with less pressure build up. Just thnking out loud here. thanks for the feedback HPman.
MB, tuning is basically a process of adding fuel to eliminate ping, then advancing timing to reach pinging, then adding fuel to eliminate ping, then bumping timing to ping, then adding fuel to eliminate pinge, until you reach the point at which adding fuel does not eliminate ping. At that point 2-3* of timing are removed and tuning for that cell is done and you move on to the next cell. This is done for each cell (rpm/load) until all rpm/load cells are completed. Using the knock sensor, you can identify the specific cell(s) where you have ping and add fuel to eliminate the ping and, if that doesn't work, remove 2-3* of timing in that cell.
If this was done for each cell in a relatively cool and dry weather tune, when the ambient temperature rises significantly, you will get ping in the hotter weather because the air has less oxygen to support the timing that didn't experience ping in denser cool air.
Unless you just want to mess with the engine, I'd identify the cells with the ping and have the tuner go through the add fuel to remove ping or simply remove a couple of degress of timing if adding fuel doesn't eliminate the ping.
Carl
If this was done for each cell in a relatively cool and dry weather tune, when the ambient temperature rises significantly, you will get ping in the hotter weather because the air has less oxygen to support the timing that didn't experience ping in denser cool air.
Unless you just want to mess with the engine, I'd identify the cells with the ping and have the tuner go through the add fuel to remove ping or simply remove a couple of degress of timing if adding fuel doesn't eliminate the ping.
Carl
#15
10-04-2010 | 07:21 AM
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,449
Likes: 44
From: Roswell, GA
MB, what I'm suggesting is simply that you probaly need a hot weather tune for the high temps/high humidity if you are concountering pinging in normal riding conditions. Your situation may also be complicated by the summer fuel formulas in use.
Hope you find a solution pleasing to you.
Carl
Hope you find a solution pleasing to you.
Carl
#16
10-04-2010 | 07:26 AM
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Ultimate HDF Member
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From: Conroe Texas
Interesting, I didnt know this, will have to check this out. I am also considering teh S&S easy start cams, putting a set in my Dyna now will have it done in a week or so then will decide. BTW I klnow yolu were yanking my chain hehe.
#17
10-04-2010 | 07:38 AM
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,474
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From: Acworth, Ga
Its only happened one time since my build, but I keep a bottle of lucas octane booster on the bike for those just in case occasions as it clears it right up
#18
10-04-2010 | 09:13 AM
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,444
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From: SC
Mine ran bad after getting gas two different times from the same station. so I no longer use them. Other than that I have not been in extreme heat yet. I have been in traffic where oil temp got to 270+, still ran ok. Interesting to see if there is a better cam that keeps the 110+tq with the HQ setup.
#19
10-04-2010 | 09:22 AM
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Ultimate HDF Member
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From: Conroe Texas
Yes I am thinking bad gas on this as well. Getting a cam to do 110 will be easy, getting it to give you 110 down low is the challenge.
Mine ran bad after getting gas two different times from the same station. so I no longer use them. Other than that I have not been in extreme heat yet. I have been in traffic where oil temp got to 270+, still ran ok. Interesting to see if there is a better cam that keeps the 110+tq with the HQ setup.
#20
10-04-2010 | 12:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Here's my .02. As I had a similar experience with my HQ103ST.
1) Are you running an oil cooler? If not, I would suggest the Jagg 10 row without thermostat. It helped my situation quite a bit
2) I don't doubt your tune is dead on for where you live. Predicting a heat/traffic situation like you experienced in Miami is something no tuner could ever tune for without being in those conditions while on the dyno. I would not suspect the tune at this time.
3) Swapping cams may be an option. I went from HQ575's to TR590's earlier this year. Virtually identical power, but I never did get a ping this summer and I was in some hot conditions like Bay Area traffic in the mid 90's. Oil temp never got above 200 though. Without the cooler in similar conditions oil temps would have gone to 220 and pinging would have been present.
4) You're probably going to need to talk to HQ about an over bore on those cylinders. Not sure that is possible since you are already at 3.93x.
Like I said, just my .02.
Zach
1) Are you running an oil cooler? If not, I would suggest the Jagg 10 row without thermostat. It helped my situation quite a bit
2) I don't doubt your tune is dead on for where you live. Predicting a heat/traffic situation like you experienced in Miami is something no tuner could ever tune for without being in those conditions while on the dyno. I would not suspect the tune at this time.
3) Swapping cams may be an option. I went from HQ575's to TR590's earlier this year. Virtually identical power, but I never did get a ping this summer and I was in some hot conditions like Bay Area traffic in the mid 90's. Oil temp never got above 200 though. Without the cooler in similar conditions oil temps would have gone to 220 and pinging would have been present.
4) You're probably going to need to talk to HQ about an over bore on those cylinders. Not sure that is possible since you are already at 3.93x.
Like I said, just my .02.
Zach