Might be a little wordy, but here goes.

Many of you know the mapping issues I've had with my PC-V. Though the suggestion never came up during any calls for help, a Forum member made a comment that piqued my curiosity. Somebody said, if I like my Roadie so much, why not try the map from that bike on my Black bike. We often hear each bike will have it's 'own' map, so I elected to dismiss the swapping of the maps idea thinking the two maps might be far enough off from another to present an added issue. As bad as my black bike was running, I didn't want to introduce any more potential headaches. So, I didn't. However, I couldn't help but wonder, just how far off could they be. For the hell of it I hooked up the black bike, saved the map, accepted the trims, and logged out. Then I went into the Roadie and saved a copy of that map so I could try it in the black bike.

Before I get to the VERY interesting part, here's one small observation, the target AFR's were virtually identical, in the same ranges, etc. So what else could be so "unique" to the mapping on the Roadie vs. the map on the black bike? Hmm.

Here's the VERY interesting part, when I looked at the ignition tables on the black bike, they were all "-3" from 1750 RPM @ 5% throttle, all the way to 3000 RPM @ 80% throttle, then a slight decrease to 40% throttle from 3250 to 3500 RPM. "0"'s everywhere else except for the following; I'd get +3 only @ 100% throttle from 3250-to-3750, then +4 from 4000 RPM all the way up, but only @ 100% throttle. Or...................

-3 from 1750-3000 RPM @5%-to-80%
-3 from 3250-3500 RPM @5%-to-40%
After that it's just odd.
+3 @100% from 3250 to 3750
+4 @100% from 4000 to 6250, &
+3 @80% from 4750 to 6250.

The map from the red bike (Roadie)? It' WAY different in the ignition tables. Not one "-", all "+" numbers and there are a LOT more of them. So much so I'll have to list them to make it easier to understand.

+3 from 1250-2250 RPM @5%-to-40%
+3 from 2500-3000 RPM @5%-to-80%, then +4 @ 100%
+3 from 3250-6500 RPM @60%-to-80%, then +4 @ 100%


Well, just those numbers alone seem to tell a big story, right? That sure as hell sheds some light onto my gripes about performance. Ok, screw it, I'm throwing the red bike map into the black bike for a test! Right off the bike already feels better merely 5 houses down the street! I hit the street for the road test and the bike feels REAL punchy now. The difference is night and day. The bike feels smoother for some reason and likes to rev now, just like the red bike. I may want to back off just a tiny bit on the advance in the lower RPM and/or lower throttle settings because on occasion a quick throttle blip will produce a very faint "tick" that sounds like a mild engine knock/pinging sound. So I'll want to address that.

When I get back home I grab the laptop to see what the AutoTune is throwing. Mostly -1's to -3's and maybe a -4, but there are a few '+" numbers higher up. I felt the bike ran so good that I decided to remove the V&H Quiet baffles I installed when I was guessing my issues might have been too little back-pressure. So, I remove the baffles and go for a spin. The bike STILL runs WAYYYY better than before and when I check to see what the AutoTune is throwing after removing the baffles, the numbers still show some "-" in some places and "+" in other places, but all are mostly small single digit numbers. The transformation is ENORMOUS.

That's like adding +6 in the ignition from before, no wonder the bike ran like ****. More interesting stuff? I did happen to catch a couple lengthy stop lights and no "Hot-Mode" yet. Preliminary results show the engine appears to be running cooler as well, but I'll know more this weekend during a club ride.

I need to find the Forum member that suggested it and say THANK YOU for tossing that idea out. Don't ask why I wasn't given that suggestion by "....." when I called them because I haven't a clue. Remember the comment stating I wouldn't get my bike fixed by posting comments like I had posted? My reply was, I may just find the Forum member with an idea that might work. And that's exactly what happened!

CASE IN POINT!!! This Forum friggin' ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm going to fine tune her a bit more, but I think the worst may indeed be over! Sorry for the LONG post, but I felt it was worth it.

 

So that's a lot of advance settings through the rev range, what exactly does that do for the bike? I've got a fuel moto map and was noticing that I only see advance at the end of the ranges very few boxes

 

Glad it worked....

 

Makes it a lot more punchy. Better throttle response. In my case, by leaps and bounds.

Wanna try it? Save the map you currently have, this way you can go back if you don't like the result. Easy enough. Then, just open up the map and have at it. Using a common sense approach (little at a time) and I couldn't possibly see an issue of any kind.

One major limiting factor is simply fuel octane. Engines respond nicely to advanced ignition, but not with modest fuel. Too much advance will eventually bring on engine detonation (pinging) and that can be destructive to an engine. Again, common sense approach. Get a little pinging, back it off a bit. Hell, if you have very little, if any, 'plus' numbers in your map, try the numbers I listed, you can always go back.

If it helps, the highest target AFR in mine is 13.8, then it goes to 13.6 & 13.2 in the upper ranges. My set-up is V&H Power Dual headers, V&H Monster Oval mufflers, and a Zippers Max-Flo air cleaner. Pretty basic set-up really.

 

all these issues? I haven't heard much from members here about their autotunes and I was surprised to read this post of yours. Doesn't the autotune make its own corrections to maximize the performance of your PCV?
I have been reading up as much as I can about the PCV's and have even played with the #'s in a map but in the end found the one that Jamie sent me to be the best. As I recall there were no -'s at all in the map, some 0's but almost all #'s were in the +'s. Even better than the one I had from a dyno. Do you have the auto tune module in both bikes or swapping one between the 2 bikes?

 

The auto tune modules do not make any adjustments to the ignition timing tables, only to the fuel.

I also have played with the timing tables and had better results. I added 2-3 degrees of advance in the lower-mid rpm and tps settings and saw better performance.

 

Really glad you're getting it sorted out. I know how frustrating it is to be fighting with an autotune that seems to be hell bent on not tuning your bike.

 

I remember suggesting to you to swap the the PCV's to test the hardware.

If all you had to do is change the maps, cool...I guess that's a little easier.
So the problem was the ignition tables...

lp

 

Did you resolve the ping issue. I am having the same issue with my limited, with the same set up as you except with Rinehart slip ons. I have not done any adjustments to my PCV yet though. Just wondering what you found.

 

Fellow members, HERE is the gent I wish to toss out an enormous ..................T-H-A-N-K...Y-O-U .....to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I mentioned, admittedly I hesitated on that move believing there to be some real uniqueness to each map. But like I said, the idea piqued my curiosity. I was correct in believing if I put it out there, there might just be that one Forum member with an idea. Simple, but wonderfully effective!
So far it does appear the primary issue was indeed the ignition tables.

For motorsgt8, I didn't resolve the ping issue yet, but as I mentioned, I will play with it because it seems to be just a tiny bit off optimal. It goes from Zero to Plus 3 in an instant. I may take an automotive approach of sorts. I may adjust it so that it "ramps" up to the Plus 3 instead of a "right now" hit. This may give the engine a chance to build more inertia and 'catch up' with the advance. Perhaps something like Plus 1, then Plus 2, finishing with the Plus 3 as the RPM increases along with the higher throttle percentages. Because, right now she's hitting an instant Plus 3 as early as 5% throttle and that appears to be where I'm getting that light ping, right during an initial twist from idle position. If not, I can always go back of course and try something different.

And, 'Watch Guy'? Seems 'TheWhitedogg' beat me to the correct answer. The AutoTune only addresses air/fuel mixtures to target AFR's that the user dictates. Doesn't do squat to the ignition tables.

Before I fiddle with the timing this weekend, we have a modest club ride on sunday and I'm going to run her the way she is to assess the heat issue. It seems she's running smoother and cooler now, but this ride will likely put me in better conditions to prove or disprove my initial impressions. I may even bring the laptop to fart around with it during the stops. I'll post anything worthy. For some weird reason, I now feel some sort of newfound freedom to go in there and screw with it any way I want. Using a common sense approach of course.