Are you asking me this question about my write-up on setting-up Auto-Tune with a switch? If so, my bike is a TC96 with stock compression and Fuel Moto Power Package (PCV-AT, AC, and Gen2 Jackpot mufflers).

You have almost one point higher compression than I do, but I haven't heard of many Stage II bikes having issues with detonation when using premium gas.

If you are having detonation issues set at -4°, you certainly don't want to set the values to +3°. Anyway, your setup is too different to use my timing tables. Are you having detonation in the cruise range, i.e. at roll-on during cruise, or at WOT and higher RPM's? Has your ECM been reflashed since doing the State II upgrade? You don't need to, but I'm curious if this was done.

 

The ecm has been reflashed ????? I know it has been updated if thats what you mean. I'm getting a single ping at WOT in 6th gear if I hit it fast 3000rpm at approx 70mpg more or less .

I have all -4 in the cruise range from 1750 @ 5% throttle to 80 down to

3500 @ 5% throttle to 80

I think I'm almost there but because the engine is running much smoother and the pipes sound even better !! High high can I go in the - Can I go 5 or 6

 

I am curious. I tried just -2 in the 2750-3250 range because I get what I think is pinging with slight roll on in that range. Jamie sent another map, and it helped up till about 3K, but was still doing it just above that. When I did it, my bike started to miss in that range. But yours is running OK from what you say. Mine is an 11, so my timing curve may be less advanced then your build. I didn't think -2 degrees would have that much of an effect? Is it possible that it is in fact ping and the ECM is pulling timing and on top of the reduced timing I am forcing with the PCV, and hence the miss?

 

That sounds exactly what I experienced with my setup went to -4 and after riding a bit seems ok but it's raining out and the temp is down so I'm going to have to run it more to see

 

Thought I'd just make a comment about the knock retard. I've been tuning using the TTS and had been having problems with fast knock retard. Long story but finally thought I had it all sorted out and did a 25-30 minute data run. In that time it pulled 8 degrees of timing from the front for 1/2 - 3/4 of the run primarily in 5th & 6th gear when increasing speed. I changed maps and even went back to stock map and had the same results. The Wizard on this forum was helping me and even though I was about to give up he convinced me to continue.

Prior to this I always heard the slight marbly sound when rolling on the throttle. On the last runs I heard nothing except when I changed to the older & stock maps. Only difference was I had installed new NGK plugs.

I removed the NGK plugs and replaced with the old HD 6R12 plugs (cleaned/sharpened/gapped), flashed the latest map in the ECM did the same run and no spark retard.

Guess my point is that in my experience on my bike, the fast knock retard seems to be very sensitive. It needs to see the right plug impedance/resistance to perform properly. If you guys are having spark removed and are using non-HD plugs you might want to give this a try. It's a cheap experiment if you are having issues.

 

When I asked about a "reflash" I was referring to the Stage II download. IOW, HD's ECM download for Stage II upgrades. If you have it, that should put you very close to optimal for detonation control, but if not I wouldn't recommend doing it at this point. I think you can get it with the stock ECM flash with some testing, as you're probably close now.

You can go as far as ±10, but you shouldn't need to go much further than you are currently. I would put your values back to 0 below 20% TP in the cruise range, as I can't see it detonating while cruising down the road under low load. Try the values in the attached table, as this is kind of where I'm at with your situation now, and I think it might be a starting point. I would keep adding or subtracting in the various cells 'til it stops detonating, and I would move away from the higher negative numbers (-4, -5, etc.) if you aren't getting detonation in those areas.

Since you described your knock as occurring when you "nail it," I've retarded a bit more at WOT (100% TP) @ 3K RPM. You can fine-tune this by listening for detonation and subtracting 2-3° when you hear it. Some will say this method is imprecise, but I think you can get very close tuning by ear this way, although it may take a bit of trial-and-error to zero in on it.

 

This is all very interesting and I'm glad you posted. I've always thought that any resistor plug would work fine with ion-discharge knock-sensing ECM's, but I'm not so sure. I had my own problems with some Autolite plugs (one step colder than normal), but not with detonation, and I'm now back with the stock HD plug for the time being.

Before reading your post I hadn't thought about plugs as being a variable with detonation issues, but I'm now more aware of this as a possible factor. To those who are having problems with detonation, it might be worth your while to install some HD plugs and see if that helps. Some old ones from the parts drawer would be good for testing after cleaning and gapping.

I think the knock-retard function is going to vary from year to year, so what works for one may not for another. I hope anyone who tries the spark-plug swap will report back any changes they see (or rather hear) in so doing.

 

Glad to hear you got your bike running right. Next year I plan to throw an Autotune on my bike and am sure I will be able to get any questions answered that I may have after the install (actually have found a lot of useful information already which will help with the install)

 

OK I will try it after the rain storm !Thanks for you suggestions and map.