We develop our maps with 91 octane fuel. There is generally very little difference between the timing table in our base map vs a bike we would dyno tune in house, they are usually within 1 degree.

 

Well.....i guess you can't be more professional then that, now can you?? Way to go Jamie.....always had great responses from Fuel Moto.

 

Seems with all Fuel Moto has been trying to do for your bike then either you're doing something wrong or there is something else wrong with the bike. Either that or it's beginning to sound like you're the customer that's never happy.

 

Believe me I know very well how things went gown. AGAIN, I cannot help you if you do not let me. I have posted several times in this thread to contact me and you have not done so. You need to contact me at 877-729-4754 Why by phone? because that is how we handle technical support at Fuel Moto as we can ask and answer very specific questions, gather information, offer suggestions and tuning recommendations, and we will then send you a new map. The only info I currently have to go off of is from your posts but there is no possible way for me to even interpret what your actual problem or issue is, I need a bit more to go off of besides is runs like crap or has issues when its warm.

 

Somebody needs a hug!

 

For iClick first, you say "Actually, the ion-discharge knock-sensing feature of the ECM can detect incipient knock before it is audible. That's why I set my ignition advance 2° below the point where I can hear detonation. IOW, mine pings at 5° at roll-on, so I have it set at 3° even though I hear nothing at 4°." If the sensors "can detect" incipient knock and have the ability to pull the timing, than why are you hearing at 5 degrees and dropping it below 4 even if you can't hear it? Obviously the sensor has it's limitations. You contradict yourself a bit, though I understand what you're trying to say. The real world simply doesn't play that nice & tidy.

Jamie, you mention "As far as the knock strategy, trust me IT DOES pull timing well before you can hear it". Than why do I hear it? Is the system just too slow, or unable to pull the timing quick enough, or pull enough of it out? FWIW, the ping is actually a quick one-time "tick", not the typical lengthy rattling we might have heard years back. Perhaps that's the result of the sensor pulling 'almost' enough timing out, but not quite enough.
And, respectfully, the issue of the 3 degrees; "To be honest -3 in the timing table is not uncommon. For example, there are far more than 3 degrees of timing between the timing tables on different years, models and calibrations." In a broad general sense, that is completely understandable. However, with my two bikes being the same year, same brand, same model, same headers, same cams, same heads, same air cleaner, and virtually the same engine, etc., the differences are so minor as to negate the need to have that drastic of a difference in timing between the two. My 103 vs. my 96 is literally the exact same engine except for jugs/pistons. The cams, heads, intake, etc., are all the very same part number. Anybody can look it up in the Parts Manual, I have, they're the same. One can safely say they're pretty much the exact same engine. Most importantly, the maps were "as delivered", I never touched the timing. Last year when you had no maps available for the Police 103, I received a best-guess map that was supposed to get me close enough for the AutoTune to get me the rest of the way based on your experience. We're all human, it's not the end of the world, the 103 map was simply not even remotely close to what the bike should have had. That meant less to me than the time and money I spent on other items trying to make the bike run right when all I needed was a better map, only to learn a far better map was already in my other bike. Good thing I didn't take the bike out of commission to send the PC-V back as the issue was not with the PC-V, only the map.

 

It is possible to hear the pinging and there are several parameters that determine the knock retard which are written in the calibration. Most commonly what is happening if you can hear it rather loudly or somewhat continually with the event lasting for more than a second or so is that the ECM has already pulled the max amount of timing written in the knock retard table. On the other hand if you hear a quick ping, that usually tends to be a situation when there is an aggressive detonation event and the ECM cant quite pull timing quick enough as the RPM's are increasing rapidly. However in most cases if there is a knock event the ECM will pull timing and you will not even know it, in most cases if you can hear the pinging it is a good indication you have several degrees too much advance. Knock retard can and will vary based on different models and calibrations as will the igntion timing table. As far as the 96" to 103" comparison yes they share many of the same components, however displacement alone makes a difference and using the same heads beween them effectively increases compression on the 103 as well, both of which will change fuel and timing requirements resulting in base calibrations which are very different between the two models. Hope this info helps

 

Da Butcher, please send me your current map exactly how you are running it at the moment with the timing you are getting the quick ping. I will take a look at the timing table and should be able to take care of it for you. You can email it to jamie@fuelmotousa.com PLEASE give me the opportunity to help you with this

 

I was reading your post on Ignition table. Was that for a 103" and 255 cams or for a 96"cu in motor

I'm finding -4 took away 98% of the pinging on my 09 ultra with 103"

very curious about making them +3 to see what happens but not if your engine is a 96" is their anyway you can send me your ignition table so I can actually see it. (if it is a 103") Please send to usmmdad@cfl.rr.com I would really appreciate it.

 

Good question. The audible knock I'm referring to happens in the cruise range when I open the throttle very quickly, apparently before the sensor can react. If I apply the throttle more slowly I don't hear it. My understanding is that it can pull timing before the onset of audibility even at low throttle input. That's my reasoning behind setting it at 2° below the audible threshold, and Jamie has okayed this procedure.