Harley workers OK new labor contract
#61
09-14-2010, 08:15 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
A lot of people think that the worker got screwed...I don't understand how this work...After a while enough is enough, most of these jobs are jobs that a schmuck off the street can be trained to do....Not rocket science...i am sure some folks in the factory are skilled workers that have gone to school for what they do but what percentage? I am not gonna totally blame the unions but they are part of the problem..i can't see Moco staying there for very long..the costs will eventually make Moco want to go to a cheaper area... Sorry for the WI workers but **** happens....
#62
09-14-2010, 08:23 PM
Road Master
#63
09-14-2010, 08:25 PM
Road Master
2009 average income per individual in the US was 50,303 gross. That breaks down to $24.18 an hour and under the newly voted upon contract the full-time HD line worker will be making $30.50. Yet, those who are complaining about the contract, are complaining about making a wage they can live on. Here is an update, they are making a full 25+% more than the average American as is the case with most union workers. The economy blows adjust your spending like the rest of us. Why should anyone else have to pay more so you can maintain a certain lifestyle. For those saying the company was threatening them....what do you call a strike? Sucks having your own strong arm tactics used against you doesn't it? With that being said, is there corporate greed at work here, ABSOLUTELY! I've posted this before. My kid worked as a porter at the local dealership and would get parts and acc. for cost plus 10%. I needed a new set of throttle cables and they cost him $19 and change, list price? $64! So how much profit is being milked by the MOCO and dealerships if 10% over cost is still 1/3 the price of list? Did the Unions fulfill a need when they were created, without a doubt! But there are now labor laws in place to protect the worker. The unions have outlived their usefulness.... by decades.
#64
09-14-2010, 08:28 PM
#65
09-14-2010, 08:28 PM
Road Master
Finally!
I see this as a union success story. The union bargained with management for the best deal they could for their workers. The workers, realizing the real threat of losing their jobs, voted for and accepted the deal. MoCo stays put, most of the workers remain employed at a livable wage. In seven years the economy might be recovered enough for new negotiations giving back what the workers lost.
#66
09-14-2010, 08:55 PM
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as a union worker i have been on several strikes and to be honest i made more money 14 years ago than i do now, so tell me what is going on with that. all these companys are using the take it or leave it policy, but it will come back to bite them in the ***, you need to treat your workers like people, not a number. I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER HARLEY FOR SEVEN YEARS BECAUSE MY UNION BROTHERS ARE TAKING A HIT. I HOPE HARLEY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE ABOUT TO **** OFF !!!
#67
09-14-2010, 08:59 PM
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Hi from the UK
I ride a Fat Bob. It cost me £10300 in April 2009. ($14935)
They now cost £11900. ($17255). The cost of spares and accessories is huge.
A Triumph Bonneville costs around £6500 ($9425)
My total household income is £40000 ($58000) so I consider myself to be well heeled, average income is less than £30000
I spent my savings on the Fat Bob. Don't regret it for a second. I have a bike built by union labour, in the US, made out of real steel, fantastic to ride and look at.
BUT: A lot of people in the UK are under threat of losing jobs, mine included. I love my Fat Bob, and I will keep it for years because I can't afford to get another.
My point is that Harley is a global product in a global market place, and while there is no other product like it (even the copies are only copies) there comes a point when bikers have to decide which new bike they want, and how much they have to spend. Harley workers and shareholders may have to take a freeze and a lowering in working conditions
I don't know what percentage of Harleys is exported, but I'll bet Europe is an important market. There comes a tipping point when a product becomes too expensive, and sales plummet.
It's better to take the pain for a time, be a little shorter on cash for a few years rather than lose a whole industry, jobs and expertise. Look at the UK motorcycle industry collapse of the 1970's/80's if you want more proof.
I ride a Fat Bob. It cost me £10300 in April 2009. ($14935)
They now cost £11900. ($17255). The cost of spares and accessories is huge.
A Triumph Bonneville costs around £6500 ($9425)
My total household income is £40000 ($58000) so I consider myself to be well heeled, average income is less than £30000
I spent my savings on the Fat Bob. Don't regret it for a second. I have a bike built by union labour, in the US, made out of real steel, fantastic to ride and look at.
BUT: A lot of people in the UK are under threat of losing jobs, mine included. I love my Fat Bob, and I will keep it for years because I can't afford to get another.
My point is that Harley is a global product in a global market place, and while there is no other product like it (even the copies are only copies) there comes a point when bikers have to decide which new bike they want, and how much they have to spend. Harley workers and shareholders may have to take a freeze and a lowering in working conditions
I don't know what percentage of Harleys is exported, but I'll bet Europe is an important market. There comes a tipping point when a product becomes too expensive, and sales plummet.
It's better to take the pain for a time, be a little shorter on cash for a few years rather than lose a whole industry, jobs and expertise. Look at the UK motorcycle industry collapse of the 1970's/80's if you want more proof.
Last edited by XL Ged; 09-14-2010 at 09:04 PM. Reason: corrections
#68
09-14-2010, 09:30 PM
"Seeker of Freedom"
To me it's just simple economics.
I can buy my HD parts locally for full Retail or I can go online and purchase the same thing for 20% discount... hmm guess I'll buy my parts online.
It's the same for any of these companies. They must show profits to thier investors. The investors today are at least as smart as I and they know that labor costs are too high in these union shops compared to the available pool of labor workers. There are plenty of Americans willing to work for a whole lot less than the current union contracts. Anybody running a business would be crazy to continue to pay 20-40% premium for labor when they can just move to South Carolina, Kansas City Missouri, Kentucky... all these places have skilled workers that need jobs and would be happy to get them at lower wages. The unions have only delayed the move to another state or country. Even if the economy gets better in 7 years. The wages will still be too high in the current factory.
I can buy my HD parts locally for full Retail or I can go online and purchase the same thing for 20% discount... hmm guess I'll buy my parts online.
It's the same for any of these companies. They must show profits to thier investors. The investors today are at least as smart as I and they know that labor costs are too high in these union shops compared to the available pool of labor workers. There are plenty of Americans willing to work for a whole lot less than the current union contracts. Anybody running a business would be crazy to continue to pay 20-40% premium for labor when they can just move to South Carolina, Kansas City Missouri, Kentucky... all these places have skilled workers that need jobs and would be happy to get them at lower wages. The unions have only delayed the move to another state or country. Even if the economy gets better in 7 years. The wages will still be too high in the current factory.
#69
09-14-2010, 09:55 PM
as a union worker i have been on several strikes and to be honest i made more money 14 years ago than i do now, so tell me what is going on with that. all these companys are using the take it or leave it policy, but it will come back to bite them in the ***, you need to treat your workers like people, not a number. I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER HARLEY FOR SEVEN YEARS BECAUSE MY UNION BROTHERS ARE TAKING A HIT. I HOPE HARLEY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE ABOUT TO **** OFF !!!
#70
09-14-2010, 10:32 PM
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as a union worker i have been on several strikes and to be honest i made more money 14 years ago than i do now, so tell me what is going on with that. all these companys are using the take it or leave it policy, but it will come back to bite them in the ***, you need to treat your workers like people, not a number. I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER HARLEY FOR SEVEN YEARS BECAUSE MY UNION BROTHERS ARE TAKING A HIT. I HOPE HARLEY KNOWS WHO THEY ARE ABOUT TO **** OFF !!!
It isn't always the union or the company that forces these changes...I myself would like to see where the manufacturers get a break, (we used to do that here during the Thompson years, you know,when we had a balanced budget)...if the companies are here, providing jobs, people are working, paying income taxes. They are buying more goods and services which require those businesses to expand and provide for more jobs. They are making improvments to their homes. More sales at the local Lowes or Menards. Oops more jobs created, More taxes paid into the state coffers. So any loss of revenue because we didn't tax a business into extinction is made up by the fact that we have more people turning over their wages in the local economy.