"lugging"
#31
07-16-2011, 11:55 AM
Elite HDF Member
LastHalf - it's a common misconception that Harleys like to run around at 2000 rpm and similar. They CAN do it but they don't like it and it's not good for the engine. I think the ping you had would be likely due to trying to open the throttle from too low revs when heavily loaded. As I said in response to the thread you started you need to use 2500 as your minimum rpm. If you drop below that then change down, I know it means you wont use 6th as often and that may not make sense to you but it will be better for the engine and wallet. If the ping persists using 2500 rpm and above fit a Power Commander and get a good tuner to tune the ping out.
A heavy bike like an EG that is stock and therefore running lean coupled with being loaded down and being in a tall gear like 6th and only turning 2100 rpms is not a good thing at all. I'm not surprised about it pinging. The bikes fuel needs to be richened up some and you need to keep the rpms up. If that doesn't appeal to you then you need to get a different bike.
#32
07-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Cruiser
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
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Very true,
A heavy bike like an EG that is stock and therefore running lean coupled with being loaded down and being in a tall gear like 6th and only turning 2100 rpms is not a good thing at all. I'm not surprised about it pinging. The bikes fuel needs to be richened up some and you need to keep the rpms up. If that doesn't appeal to you then you need to get a different bike.
A heavy bike like an EG that is stock and therefore running lean coupled with being loaded down and being in a tall gear like 6th and only turning 2100 rpms is not a good thing at all. I'm not surprised about it pinging. The bikes fuel needs to be richened up some and you need to keep the rpms up. If that doesn't appeal to you then you need to get a different bike.
So in trying to save the environment, the tree-huggers have cost me $2000 and ruined my vacation, not to mention the environmental impact to manufacture/ship another piston/cylinder and flush the engine with oil a couple times! I know, I know, the impact from higher emissions over a bike`s lifetime would make that pale in comparison but I had to vent.
I wouldn`t have expected I`d have to richen up an EFI system, and therefore wish they`d just stuck to good `ol carbs in which I could change the jets. No problem running 2500 rpm which I`ll definately do from now on as advised by many, but it`s unfortunate I need to go to the aftermarket for a tuner when Harley should have it right from the factory for what these cost. Again it must be emissions `forcing`them to be so clean that the engine`s right on the edge.
How much is one of these tuners, are they easily installed, what is the best model for a stock machine with an owner completely uninterested in performance or fiddling but simply wants his engine not to explode? I`d like to keep it given three things: a) I already will have dumped $2,000 into it to fix what happened, and b) I just paid the government $2500 in PST/GST a year ago, and on principle alone I`m not going to go buy something different and pay them yet another $2500 on another used bike. My pet peave as you can tell....and c) I love everything else about the bike and was bragging about how awesome Harley`s were just 2 weeks ago before this happened.
#34
07-16-2011, 12:59 PM
Elite HDF Member
I`m no lightweight either at probably 240 with my gear on, plus packed to the hilt luggage plus tenting stuff on the passenger seat. I thought being stock would be a good thing for reliability, and it wouldn`t be lean but safe, though maybe the tree-huggers have Harley leaning the fuel map and adding 6th gears to pass newly imposed emissions regulations.
So in trying to save the environment, the tree-huggers have cost me $2000 and ruined my vacation, not to mention the environmental impact to manufacture/ship another piston/cylinder and flush the engine with oil a couple times! I know, I know, the impact from higher emissions over a bike`s lifetime would make that pale in comparison but I had to vent.
I wouldn`t have expected I`d have to richen up an EFI system, and therefore wish they`d just stuck to good `ol carbs in which I could change the jets. No problem running 2500 rpm which I`ll definately do from now on as advised by many, but it`s unfortunate I need to go to the aftermarket for a tuner when Harley should have it right from the factory for what these cost. Again it must be emissions `forcing`them to be so clean that the engine`s right on the edge.
How much is one of these tuners, are they easily installed, what is the best model for a stock machine with an owner completely uninterested in performance or fiddling but simply wants his engine not to explode? I`d like to keep it given three things: a) I already will have dumped $2,000 into it to fix what happened, and b) I just paid the government $2500 in PST/GST a year ago, and on principle alone I`m not going to go buy something different and pay them yet another $2500 on another used bike. My pet peave as you can tell....and c) I love everything else about the bike and was bragging about how awesome Harley`s were just 2 weeks ago before this happened.
So in trying to save the environment, the tree-huggers have cost me $2000 and ruined my vacation, not to mention the environmental impact to manufacture/ship another piston/cylinder and flush the engine with oil a couple times! I know, I know, the impact from higher emissions over a bike`s lifetime would make that pale in comparison but I had to vent.
I wouldn`t have expected I`d have to richen up an EFI system, and therefore wish they`d just stuck to good `ol carbs in which I could change the jets. No problem running 2500 rpm which I`ll definately do from now on as advised by many, but it`s unfortunate I need to go to the aftermarket for a tuner when Harley should have it right from the factory for what these cost. Again it must be emissions `forcing`them to be so clean that the engine`s right on the edge.
How much is one of these tuners, are they easily installed, what is the best model for a stock machine with an owner completely uninterested in performance or fiddling but simply wants his engine not to explode? I`d like to keep it given three things: a) I already will have dumped $2,000 into it to fix what happened, and b) I just paid the government $2500 in PST/GST a year ago, and on principle alone I`m not going to go buy something different and pay them yet another $2500 on another used bike. My pet peave as you can tell....and c) I love everything else about the bike and was bragging about how awesome Harley`s were just 2 weeks ago before this happened.
#35
07-16-2011, 01:30 PM
If the bike is pinging stock it really is Harley's problem, and there is no excuse for it. You don't tune out pinging by richening up the mixture, either. You can't blame the EPA for that, just a bad OEM calibration.
That being said, my bike has never had detonation issues, either stock or after I tuned it with a TTS.
That being said, my bike has never had detonation issues, either stock or after I tuned it with a TTS.
#37
07-16-2011, 02:24 PM
Supporter
#38
07-16-2011, 05:05 PM
Elite HDF Member
If the bike is pinging stock it really is Harley's problem, and there is no excuse for it. You don't tune out pinging by richening up the mixture, either. You can't blame the EPA for that, just a bad OEM calibration.
That being said, my bike has never had detonation issues, either stock or after I tuned it with a TTS.
That being said, my bike has never had detonation issues, either stock or after I tuned it with a TTS.
http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html
As stated earlier, anything that will raise temperatures in the cylinder will help promote detonation. This rise in temperature could occur many different ways: very lean air/fuel ratios, heating of the charge air prior to entering the combustion chamber, compression of the air molecules from forced induction, or poor heat dissipation through the cooling system. Increase of cylinder pressure will also prompt detonation. Camshaft profile, compression ratio and quench area all come into play. Design criteria as to combustion chamber shape and mixture motion, spark plug location and piston design can all make an engine more or less inherently prone to abnormal combustion. Naturally, spark timing and fuel quality round off the list.
Increasing fuel to cool these hot motors along with possibly retarding the timing will have an effect. Good luck waiting around for HD too fix the problem. BTW, nobody asked about your bike.
#40
07-16-2011, 05:51 PM
I've been riding for the best part of 43 years, all Harleys. It took me 4 years of riding on my '07 to figure it out. 6th gear is useless. Period. At least for my style of riding.
I really thought plugging it into 6th and cruising at 70 mph @ 2450 rpm was great. Not so. As I said in a previous thread, my '07 was the most efficient in 5th at 2800 rpm on the highway. I rode like this for the best part of 3000 miles on our western swing last month. The oil temp was 25 deg cooler (230), and the fuel economy was 45mpg to 51mpg vs 36 to 40 mpg and 250-260 deg. Thus, for my style of riding, I would need to go 76+mph to keep it in that RPM range where it would pull hills and pass other vehicles. 6th gear will cause more problems than its worth, at least for me.
Here is how the gear changes are spelled out in the owners manual. I think they are wrong.
First to second
15
Second to third
25
Third to fourth
35
Fourth to fifth
45
Fifth to sixth
55
It is hard to have another gear there and not shift into it. You really want to do it. Fill your tank and go out and run it out on the highway, not ever shifting into 6th. You'll see what I mean.
I really thought plugging it into 6th and cruising at 70 mph @ 2450 rpm was great. Not so. As I said in a previous thread, my '07 was the most efficient in 5th at 2800 rpm on the highway. I rode like this for the best part of 3000 miles on our western swing last month. The oil temp was 25 deg cooler (230), and the fuel economy was 45mpg to 51mpg vs 36 to 40 mpg and 250-260 deg. Thus, for my style of riding, I would need to go 76+mph to keep it in that RPM range where it would pull hills and pass other vehicles. 6th gear will cause more problems than its worth, at least for me.
Here is how the gear changes are spelled out in the owners manual. I think they are wrong.
First to second
15
Second to third
25
Third to fourth
35
Fourth to fifth
45
Fifth to sixth
55
It is hard to have another gear there and not shift into it. You really want to do it. Fill your tank and go out and run it out on the highway, not ever shifting into 6th. You'll see what I mean.