What he said.......in a nutshell.

 

So you mean on the highway at 60 mph you`re in 4th out of 6 gears? At 60 mph my EG`s at about 2100-2150 rpm in 6th, 2500 rpm in 5th, so to be 2800-3500 rpm I`d have to be in 4th....you must be talking your rpm`s while accelerating, and not cruisting at a steady speed on a flat road.

That said, a friend of mine forwarded me the link to this thread because the dealership owner/mechanic said my piston broke and scratched my piston at only 29,000 km due to pre-ignition caused by lugging, specifically running 6th gear at 60 mph when I should have been in 5th. It`ll probably cost me $2000 on a 2008 that`s been babied....which apparently is the problem according to him.

I had pinging despite being on premium, but in the middle of a 20,000 km trip I assumed it was normal if mild which I though it was (tinkling sound sometimes so I`d back off), and since its stone stock I didn`t think the timing or fuel map would have been changed by the previous owner who actually bought it off the dealer I have it at now, who owned it himself the first year and both guys are mature, experienced riders who would not have abused it. The implication is it pinged due to lugging.

Anyone else have an engine failure attributed to running 2100 rpm while cruising (and had pinging issues on a stock bike)? My concern is that after fixing this for a lot of money, it`ll start pinging again and I`ll be forced to just sell the thing and buy a BMW.....which I know is blasphemous on this site, but what would you do if riding it in 5th on premium still pings, and that very pinging destroyed half your engine the last time? I could have no peace or relaxation while on vacation with an engine like that. And it`s unfortunate because other than the pinging, 1.5 L oil burning per oil change, and the engine failure I had loved the bike.

 

Judging by my experience, IF the 30 year veteran mechanic/dealer-owner told me is correct, I think that`s a wise move using 5th until around 65-70 despite 2 dealership service departments telling me 2000 and up is fine (yah fine until your motor blows up!). However I don`t understand the logic of doing so because its 2500 rpm in 6th at 70-75 so therefore using 5th for 2500 rpm at those lower speeds. Again I think it may be the safest bet if my mechanic, and possibly Harley tech support too assuming he`s spoken with them, but just wondering what you meant by that. Ah I see - probably your thinking was that 65-70 is a very common speed limit so Harley must have intended 6th for those speeds, at which point its turning say 2500 rpm, so you should use 5th for 55-60 again at 2500 rpm.

 

But at say 2100-2200 rpm on a flat or pretty flat road, you`re not trying to accelerate but maintain speed, so you don`t hear any noise/shake/knock so I`m wondering if that`s still lugging since the motor sounds smooth. Actually at 2100-2200 rpm (6th at 100 kph) if you turn the throttle it may not rocket you away, but it still sounds/feels fine to me, but then I`m new to riding these things. Well I put 20,000 km on it at 2100 rpm in 6th most of the way, but new as in only having one for a year now. And you can`t go by what I feel sounds fine apparently, because I may have been driving it for some time with a broken piston and 10 psi in the lead cylinder without a clue! Unless the piston broke on startup this spring, which judging by the big clunk sounds I heard when it wouldn`t start without throttle so I held it WOT to get it to fire/catch so I attributed the initial clunks to running on 1 cylinder for a few moments, may have been when it happened but the piston was just ready to go due to lugging/pinging and that was the last straw. Then again when I got it running without air filter, the only time it`ll start and idle, to take it to the dealership it had a broken piston apparently and 10 psi and it seemed normal to me. Point being, I`m not the best judge of how an engine sounds! A mechanic could tell right away just by how it idled and responded to throttle when sitting there.

Can lugging cause pre-ignition or detonation (the former being mixture ignited BEFORE spark, and the latter AFTER spark but the mechanic says pre-ignition)? I used premium. I also heard pinging though when in 5th so that didn`t seem to make a difference which is making me think I`ll just have to sell it.

 

I find with the 6 speed (at least on my Ultra), the engine feedback is much more subtle and I have to pay a bit more attention to the tach. or I will find myself overgeared. On my TC88 with the 5 speed (Dyna) I can feel the engine constantly and never even look at my tach anymore. Having said that, I don't use 6th under 70 mph and I ALWAYS downshift before rolling on the throttle in 6th regardless of my speed. I just don't think 6th is for anything but steady cruising above 70 mph.

 

Never apply power below 2000 RPM. Contrary to what some will tell you, low idle is bad too.

Twin's like higher RPM's.

~Joe

 

Keep it above 2000 RPM and get a tune that will add fuel. If you are riding 2-up and loaded, keep it above 2500 RPM.

BMW's are ugly sonofabitch'es BTW. I'd rather drive the car than ride one.


~Joe

 

+1 Perfectly said !

 

Thanks (and yes if I could have faith it`ll not blow up again I wouldn`t even be thinking of selling the Harley, but my confidence is badly shaken given the extent of the damage for simply running it 2100-2200 rpm for a long 20,000 km trip). I was riding 1 up loaded and above 2000 rpm, 2100-2200 rpm in fact, but maybe should`ve been over 2500 rpm since loaded....because the piston busted on the side and on the top near that side which gouged the cylinder. I hope the bottom end is okay with any metal that got pulverized down there during my troubleshooting/idling/revving and short trip to get it to the dealer before I knew the piston was broken.

 

LastHalf - it's a common misconception that Harleys like to run around at 2000 rpm and similar. They CAN do it but they don't like it and it's not good for the engine. I think the ping you had would be likely due to trying to open the throttle from too low revs when heavily loaded. As I said in response to the thread you started you need to use 2500 as your minimum rpm. If you drop below that then change down, I know it means you wont use 6th as often and that may not make sense to you but it will be better for the engine and wallet. If the ping persists using 2500 rpm and above fit a Power Commander and get a good tuner to tune the ping out.