PCV Auto Tune. To accept trims or not
#11
08-25-2010, 05:04 PM
Platinum Sponsor
On the contrary, members here have such a vast array of knowledge and/or experiences I might get an odd 'trick' to try that just might work. Sometimes people here run into something extremely frustrating only to find out there's that one person who just happened to have experienced the same or similar problem. One of the many cool things about this forum.
I have called on more than one occasion with the advice being "accept the trims". One alternate map was sent with suggestions followed. Email replies with results were sent as requested. Replies to my emails would go unanswered for extended periods. It's rare that I can call during normal business hours, so I email and wait. I respect a preference for calls vs. email, but I do what I have to to work around the obstacles. When a vendor tells me they understand why it's easier for me and ok to send an email, it is appreciated and I don't expect an immediate reply. I don't feel I'm out of line wondering why I may not receive a reply for weeks yet view responses on a forum moments after a thread is posted.
If your presumption is the intent is to bash, you are sorely mistaken. I elected not to name anybody because that's not the point and to eliminate any suggestions that I might have purchased my goods from some fly-by-night company. The point is, there is an obvious issue with the bike and for months there had to have been a better solution to my experience other than "accept the trims". I'm thrilled with one bike and baffled by another. Months of no progress will open ones mind to alternative solutions.
If anybody here wishes to view me in a negative light because I've exhausted my patience for not being able to ride my bike without problems for 6+ months while actively seeking a solution then have at it. Up until lately I have been more than patient and more than reasonable by not mentioning squat here. Shame on anyone who views this otherwise. I simply want viable solutions to a very long standing problem.
Flame on if anyone feels it's warranted. Sad if you do.
I have called on more than one occasion with the advice being "accept the trims". One alternate map was sent with suggestions followed. Email replies with results were sent as requested. Replies to my emails would go unanswered for extended periods. It's rare that I can call during normal business hours, so I email and wait. I respect a preference for calls vs. email, but I do what I have to to work around the obstacles. When a vendor tells me they understand why it's easier for me and ok to send an email, it is appreciated and I don't expect an immediate reply. I don't feel I'm out of line wondering why I may not receive a reply for weeks yet view responses on a forum moments after a thread is posted.
If your presumption is the intent is to bash, you are sorely mistaken. I elected not to name anybody because that's not the point and to eliminate any suggestions that I might have purchased my goods from some fly-by-night company. The point is, there is an obvious issue with the bike and for months there had to have been a better solution to my experience other than "accept the trims". I'm thrilled with one bike and baffled by another. Months of no progress will open ones mind to alternative solutions.
If anybody here wishes to view me in a negative light because I've exhausted my patience for not being able to ride my bike without problems for 6+ months while actively seeking a solution then have at it. Up until lately I have been more than patient and more than reasonable by not mentioning squat here. Shame on anyone who views this otherwise. I simply want viable solutions to a very long standing problem.
Flame on if anyone feels it's warranted. Sad if you do.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
#12
08-25-2010, 05:10 PM
#13
08-25-2010, 06:05 PM
I was simply stating to contact us for help, you cannot email the map request email for technical support as you have been. We are more that willing to offer any and all of our resources to help you get to the bottom of your issue. If you were closer you could even bring your bike and we would put it up on the dyno and see firshand whats going on. It is unreasonable to think your bike has not been running properly for 6 months and you could not get thru to us. Lets just move ahead and see what we need to do to get your bike running properly.
Indeed, let's do exactly that, it would be IMMENSELY appreciated to have the EG even just equal to the RG.
If you'll indulge me in a little clarification, I hadn't been emailing for a map request. That one map had already been sent to me and it was requested that email the results of the new map after accepting the trims. basically I was merely asked to "let me know how it worked". Later I was asked to send in my maps for assessment. I did. I had been getting through, it was merely the response time. That's kind of it in a nutshell.
You have no idea how I'd love to have that thing thrown on the Dyno and tuned with some knowhow, I too wish I lived closer. You mentioned late last year that you didn't really have maps for the Police 103's. Perhaps this may wind up helping some future "P" bike owners. That would be worth it.
And to nemick's "In actual fact, I'd like to commend the OP for not stating his vendor. Too often, myself included, names are named before proper investigation or research. I have no doubt that the solution to this problem is lurking right around the corner." Thank you for understanding my intent. Nice to see it wasn't taken as something strictly to run negative with.
#14
08-25-2010, 10:20 PM
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You are correct in members her a vast array of knowledge and experiences. This is what is great about this forum. Maybe when you are calling Fuel Moto you are not asking the correct questions. I know they go overboard with answers of questions I ask them. Also on many occasions Jamie has always stated to call due to the vast amount of emails he receives. When I do email I put HD forums in the subject and it gets noticed and answered very quickly.
Then I guess shame on me for saying but you are the real issue here. I would never let my bike go 6 months with issues like this. Also dealing with Fuel Moto for over 2 years they would never allow me to have an issue like this. They have helped me fix problems unrelated to items I have purchased from them. You obviously are not communicating with Fuel Moto. No one else here has communication issues with Fuel Moto. Now quick complaining and just call and talk to the man. If you don't have time in the day to call Fuel Moto then obviously this problem is not that important!
Then I guess shame on me for saying but you are the real issue here. I would never let my bike go 6 months with issues like this. Also dealing with Fuel Moto for over 2 years they would never allow me to have an issue like this. They have helped me fix problems unrelated to items I have purchased from them. You obviously are not communicating with Fuel Moto. No one else here has communication issues with Fuel Moto. Now quick complaining and just call and talk to the man. If you don't have time in the day to call Fuel Moto then obviously this problem is not that important!
On the contrary, members here have such a vast array of knowledge and/or experiences I might get an odd 'trick' to try that just might work. Sometimes people here run into something extremely frustrating only to find out there's that one person who just happened to have experienced the same or similar problem. One of the many cool things about this forum.
I have called on more than one occasion with the advice being "accept the trims". One alternate map was sent with suggestions followed. Email replies with results were sent as requested. Replies to my emails would go unanswered for extended periods. It's rare that I can call during normal business hours, so I email and wait. I respect a preference for calls vs. email, but I do what I have to to work around the obstacles. When a vendor tells me they understand why it's easier for me and ok to send an email, it is appreciated and I don't expect an immediate reply. I don't feel I'm out of line wondering why I may not receive a reply for weeks yet view responses on a forum moments after a thread is posted.
If your presumption is the intent is to bash, you are sorely mistaken. I elected not to name anybody because that's not the point and to eliminate any suggestions that I might have purchased my goods from some fly-by-night company. The point is, there is an obvious issue with the bike and for months there had to have been a better solution to my experience other than "accept the trims". I'm thrilled with one bike and baffled by another. Months of no progress will open ones mind to alternative solutions.
If anybody here wishes to view me in a negative light because I've exhausted my patience for not being able to ride my bike without problems for 6+ months while actively seeking a solution then have at it. Up until lately I have been more than patient and more than reasonable by not mentioning squat here. Shame on anyone who views this otherwise. I simply want viable solutions to a very long standing problem.
Flame on if anyone feels it's warranted. Sad if you do.
I have called on more than one occasion with the advice being "accept the trims". One alternate map was sent with suggestions followed. Email replies with results were sent as requested. Replies to my emails would go unanswered for extended periods. It's rare that I can call during normal business hours, so I email and wait. I respect a preference for calls vs. email, but I do what I have to to work around the obstacles. When a vendor tells me they understand why it's easier for me and ok to send an email, it is appreciated and I don't expect an immediate reply. I don't feel I'm out of line wondering why I may not receive a reply for weeks yet view responses on a forum moments after a thread is posted.
If your presumption is the intent is to bash, you are sorely mistaken. I elected not to name anybody because that's not the point and to eliminate any suggestions that I might have purchased my goods from some fly-by-night company. The point is, there is an obvious issue with the bike and for months there had to have been a better solution to my experience other than "accept the trims". I'm thrilled with one bike and baffled by another. Months of no progress will open ones mind to alternative solutions.
If anybody here wishes to view me in a negative light because I've exhausted my patience for not being able to ride my bike without problems for 6+ months while actively seeking a solution then have at it. Up until lately I have been more than patient and more than reasonable by not mentioning squat here. Shame on anyone who views this otherwise. I simply want viable solutions to a very long standing problem.
Flame on if anyone feels it's warranted. Sad if you do.
#15
08-26-2010, 07:22 AM
Here's what I have on an '09 with 255's. Remember that the PCV adds/subtracts from the existing ECM timing, so you'll need to go into a stock configuration in SERT and add these values to it. Hope it helps. My '07 goes up to 4° at 100% TP and 3500+, but stays at 3° at 60-80%.
Last edited by iclick; 08-26-2010 at 07:25 AM.
#16
08-26-2010, 07:37 AM
I'm trying to decide whether to accept the fuel trims dictated by my PCV Auto Tune. On the one hand, I presume that continuously accepting them will get the tune closer and closer, but if my trim values are below the threshold of +- 25% which I selected, is there any point in accepting them?
Of course, this is predicated on the belief that the Auto Tune is making instantaneous adjustments, I hope it is.
The only reason I am hesitating, is because I ride in all kinds of conditions weather wise and also varying altitudes. I don't want to accept trims that then prevent the auto tune from doing the best possible job from one day to another.
Then again, I might just have nothing better to worry about!
Accept or not? What do you think?
Of course, this is predicated on the belief that the Auto Tune is making instantaneous adjustments, I hope it is.
The only reason I am hesitating, is because I ride in all kinds of conditions weather wise and also varying altitudes. I don't want to accept trims that then prevent the auto tune from doing the best possible job from one day to another.
Then again, I might just have nothing better to worry about!
Accept or not? What do you think?
If you are using my method of switching for better gas mileage you can't be accepting trims beyond the first instance to establish a good rich map. After that you must let AT do its thing without accepting trims, as otherwise it defeats the purpose of the switch feature in that context. For those with AT who are interested, here's the thread that describes that concept. It works very well for me.
Last edited by iclick; 08-26-2010 at 03:03 PM.
#17
08-26-2010, 08:02 AM
#18
08-26-2010, 08:35 AM
If your trims aren't a max corrections, it doesn't make a bit of difference if you accept trims or not, but initially (at least if your experience is anything like mine) you need to go through the process of accepting trims to get it to where it's dialed in.
If, however, you have a base map that's already close, then accepting trims or not doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
#19
08-26-2010, 08:41 AM
Road Master
I am running the PCV and AT with the switch like iclicks. I tell you I am remarkably impressed with the map AT has made. Jamie was very instrumental in getting me a good base map I then showed him my map progressions and he provided me a new base map to start with. My bike runs better than it ever has and does not ever miss a beat or sputter back fire. iclick was good to me too on comprehending how the AT works and what he said above is all true but hard to fathom when your starting out with the AT. Keep at it with Jamie he will get you straightened out and there are guys here than have good info also that are willing to help thanks iclick!
#20
08-26-2010, 12:20 PM
My autotune needed to make some big adjustments to my map when I got it working correctly. I was in double digit corrections for 3 or 4 rounds of accepting trims before I finally got it to where it's staying in low single digits. If I hadn't accepted trims over several sessions, I'd still be way off in multiple cells.
If your trims aren't a max corrections, it doesn't make a bit of difference if you accept trims or not, but initially (at least if your experience is anything like mine) you need to go through the process of accepting trims to get it to where it's dialed in.
If, however, you have a base map that's already close, then accepting trims or not doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
If your trims aren't a max corrections, it doesn't make a bit of difference if you accept trims or not, but initially (at least if your experience is anything like mine) you need to go through the process of accepting trims to get it to where it's dialed in.
If, however, you have a base map that's already close, then accepting trims or not doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
Since I'm running so much leaner than the base map in the cruise range for better mileage, switchable to the base map for cooling when needed, my trims are fairly large in places. Most of them are between -8 and -15, but one is -35 (3000 @ 2%) on both cylinders, which is my max-enleanment setting. These two high negatives may be a reversion issue in my case, but it isn't causing any problems since they're outside my usual operating range (except decel), so I'm leaving it alone.
Last edited by iclick; 08-26-2010 at 12:29 PM.