Those aren't my current #s (I've had a significant amount of tuning since then but since I don't have a current dyno, I stand by the last one I had done) but we'll save the pissing match for another time. He was the one asking for feedback on his 106 build #s, not me. There aren't many guys I know that would be happy with 95hp out of a 106 (even with stock heads). So long as he's happy with the performance, that's all that counts. I can only assume he started the thread because he's got some question in his mind about the performance. If that's a misread than let's just hold hands and sing kumbya that the performance is what he should have expected.

And anyone paying for a "custom tune" that get's a chart back without the AFR reading should be asking a whole lot of questions of the tuner.

 

Dude...

You are not making much sense. If the build in question were a "package" 106 with heads, TB, injectors, etc. it would be more like 110/120... I've done enough 107's to say that with confidence. What we are talking about here is simply a "big bore" kit & a set of cams. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

As far as you incessant harping about AFR, I suggest to take a little time to better educate yourself before spouting out ASSumptions and looking even more silly.

Do a google search on TwinScan II+. It's a tool many tuners use now to monitor / tune AFR with wideband sensors in both pipes (ideally in O2 bungs rather than sniffer tubes).

Furthermnore, the "numbers" and/or AFR you see on a dyno chart are NO REFLECTION on how a bike will ride, run, or what kinda fuel economy it will get. A dyno chart is a snapshot of a WFO pull ~ conditions almost never experienced on the street.

It's what a tuner does BELOW WFO that matters.

_________________

Question for ya... Since the original poster was asked how much $$ he had in his build and answer that he spent $1225 in total for parts & labor, care to share how much $$ you have in parts & labor for your 111/115?

 

Bottom line is this, are you happy with the way the bike runs?

The only two observations I'll make are:

- The concentric baffle is designed for nothing more than a stage 1 96. That baffle was strangling my stage 1 103. If you speak to anyone at D&D about it, they'll tell you the same. The wrapped performance baffle is moderately louder with a lower tone, and should add some nice power.

- Your tune needs work. That dip can be tuned out. You mentioned "both" dyno sessions. Are you saying that chart you posted is the result of two dyno pulls? If that's the case, your bike's not tuned as well as it could be. Regardless of how many pulls were done, I think you're leaving power on the table.

 

The concentric baffle is designed for nothing more than a stage 1 96. That baffle was strangling my stage 1 103. If you speak to anyone at D&D about it, they'll tell you the same. The wrapped performance baffle is moderately louder with a lower tone, and should add some nice power.

- Your tune needs work. That dip can be tuned out. You mentioned "both" dyno sessions. Are you saying that chart you posted is the result of two dyno pulls? If that's the case, your bike's not tuned as well as it could be. Regardless of how many pulls were done, I think you're leaving power on the table.[/QUOTE]

Not to steal this thread but Dave has been unable to tune out the dip for me in the last two tunes he has done for me. I believe the reason for this is me wanting a quiet exhaust such as the Concentric baffle,I think I was at Dave's when you were talking to him about your Concentric baffle. I'm tried the wrapped baffle and it was much too loud riding two up,I'm hoping the Concentric baffle won't be,I really don't care what happens over 4,000 RPM

 

Huh, then perhaps that baffle is causing the dip. Be curious to see what the wrapped baffle does next month when I get the tune.

 

Looks like you're having a bad day and looking for pissing match. Unfortunately you'll need to keep looking for another playmate.

I certainly never suggested that the WOT dyno is the only factor in determining if the bike runs well. In fact I've said numerous times that if he's pleased with the performance, than that's all that matters. OTOH a poor AFR read at WOT is a sure sign of a poor tuning (and likely poor performance in the cells below WOT). The absence of the AFR being printed on the dyno is generally a sign the operator either doesn't want the owner to see it or doesn't know how to print it out. Either options are poor one's and should be a sign to find another shop, particularly if the shop won't print it out for you when you ask for it.

My only comment is and remains, that most owners paying for a 96" to 106" conversion with a cam upgrade and good tune would expect more than 95hp at WOT. Could be poor choice in cams, poor A/C flow, poor exhaust choice or poor tune. In the OP's case, cams look like a reasonable choice, A/C looks good, exhaust looks good (although the quiet performance baffle would perform better than the cocentric in the FatCat). So that leaves the tuning.

Let me guess. You're in the bike tuning business. How many dyno services do you get paid for where you don't provide the customer with their WOT AFR read out?

I promise, when I'm seeking input on my build I'll be sure to personally invite you to comment. BTW, I've been tuning my efi bikes since 2003 and am quite familiar with the SERT and the SEPST.

 

Interesting... you wanna **** on someone, but don;t want a pissing match.

So... you are a tuner & you tuned you Stage X Hillside 110 to 111/115... Nuff said.

Also, if you were a tuner, you'd know that implying that a big bore & bolt in cams should easily get 100 HP on a late model bike is ridiculous.

I am NOT a tuner, but since you are, let's see some of your stuff ~ particularly a late model FBW Bagger with just a big bore kit & cams doing what you are suggesting should be the norm.

No pissing match here... Just a BS alert.

 

There were 2 bikes with the same build being dynoed. They both had the same dip and ended up within 3 hp of each other. I would post the other sheet but the owner the bike has it with him. I would have to say yes there is more hp there but not with the concentric baffle.

 

Nope...never said I was a tuner. Never worked on anyone's bike but my own. Also never pissed on anyone (at least in this thread but generally not my MO). Already pointed out that the numbers posted on my bike were from earlier in the year and came from a map not even remotely close to the one I'm running now. I currently have far better performance than the earlier map that generated 111/115 but since I don't have a new map yet, I don't make claims about my performance that I can't support. But my bike is irrelevant to the topic raised by the OP.

I've seen enough bikes with smaller displacement and stock heads produce up to and more than 100hp to conclude that a 106 with stock heads, good cam, good pipes & A/C matched with a good tuner should easily produce 100+hp. My brother's 2003 SERK with stock heads and a cam/pipe/A/C/tune upgrade produced 106hp/109ft-lbs.

But that's not just my opinion. Here's a stack of dynos for engines with 106CI or less with stock heads producing as much or more than the OP's new 106".

Here's a 96" with stock heads, cams, pipes, A/C and tune doing 95hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc96efitw6-1.jpg

Here's another 96" with just a cam upgrade and tune doing 100hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc96efitw6-6-3.jpg

Here's another 96" with just a cam, pipes, A/C upgrade and tune doing 91hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc96efitw6-6-4.jpg

Here's another 96" with pipes, cam and tune at 93hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc96efitw6-6vsstock.jpg

Here's another 96" with pipes, cams, A/C & tune at 94hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc96efitw6-6-1.jpg

Here's another 96" with pipes, cams, A/C & tune at 93hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc96...-6vsstock1.jpg

Here's a 103 with TDs, cams, A/C and tune at 95hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc10...6-6vsStock.jpg

Here's a 103" with pipes, cams, A/C and a tune at 99hp: http://www.woodcarbs.com/images/tc103efitw6-6-1.jpg



And there's many more engines with less displacement than 106ci running stock heads that are producing 95hp and more. I'm afraid if I invested in a big bore kit that resulted in 106ci PLUS Cams PLUS a new exhaust system PLUS a new Air Cleaner PLUS a tuning, I'd be somewhat disappointed in 95hp. But that's just me.

If the OP is happy with the performance than that's all that counts. If It were my bike, I wouldn't be.

 

Funny... only ONE of that sheet from list of marketing poop shows 100HP and it's from who...???... The infamous Joe's, with their typical uncorrected (bullsh1t) numbers.

Ya know... I could really care less, but I am inclined to point out the obvious.

Since you are so distraught about a strangers dyno results, one must wonder if you are not projecting your own frustration with your poor results (from BIG $$) on others.

For the record, I am happy for Joe & know his bike runs & rides good and that it will be even better with an appropriate baffle.

You, on the other hand... I'm sure you'll be ready to dog the next guy and will stay perpetually satisfied in the process. Good luck to ya.

Note to self: Some folks know everything, just ask them. Even better, don't ask.