Car tire 3000 mile report
#31
08-16-2010, 08:17 PM
Ok guess I'm going to play devils ad. on this one.
Let me start by saying I have tens of thousands of miles on DS tires, on numerous models and makes of bike, the last being a 08 Victory Vision with the Bridgestone Potenza 195/55/16 mounted.
The good side to the DS tire is it "feels" really planted but don't let that fool you. A MC tire offers FAR better traction in rain and on dry surfaces... it is simple physics. A MC tire has very little contact patch (about 1/4-1/2")and as such hydroplanes far less than a DS tire with a 6-8" contact patch. DS riders ALWAYS rave about traction which does not exist, I've tested it. The MC tire will out-perform the DS tire in emergency stopping, wet or dry. You also won't break the MC tire loose as easily in a extremely wet (standing water) curve as you will a DS, again tested. Don't get me wrong the rear of the bike isn't gonna go flying out from under you, but riding safely with either is the appropriate recommendation.
The DS tire because of its flat nature will "hunt" out any road imperfections. So if there is a groove in the road the rear tire will suck the front into that track. And contrary to the tire bending in a curve assertion, the tire rolls over the hump leading to the sidewall, hence the need to push harder to lean the bike over. Recommended psi is 32 which is right where you'd run a car tire, BUT most experienced DS riders put 100+ miles on the tire at 40 psi to soften the sidewalls before dropping to 32 psi. It simply softens/breaks in the tire quicker.
Advantages are the DS tire lasts about 30k miles, are easy to plug if you get a flat, and "feel" very planted.... If you have ridden a bike with a 250-300 series tire it is that same extra push to lean the bike into a curve and avoid the tires tendancy to stand the bike back up, not bad, just different.
You either really LIKE the DS tire, or you don't. It is purely a personal feel type thing and each tire DS or MC trades something off for that feel. I don't tow as often as I use to, so for "me" the DS tire is not an appropriate choice given my "current" riding habits. If I was towing more frequent, I'd be running a DS, so this isn't a diss the DS tire reply.
Hell use to be the only tires available for bikes were a car tire (think WWII) and through the years the MC tire evolved. Heck I remember running Continental MC tires on a bike of mine that lasted 30k and still looked new (hard as a rock rubber). Terrible traction but no wear, lol... The DS tire trend came back when Honda Valk riders couldn't get more than 4k out of a rear tire and decided to try another option, the Wingers joined in on the fun.
There are numerous video links on Youtube that show the tires reaction in a curve/turn, so please look into stuff yourself if this is something you are leaning towards. You'll also come across a DS tire blowout scare video, maybe two. We all know this happens on MC tires as well.
ps... using dyna beads for balancing them works best
Let me start by saying I have tens of thousands of miles on DS tires, on numerous models and makes of bike, the last being a 08 Victory Vision with the Bridgestone Potenza 195/55/16 mounted.
The good side to the DS tire is it "feels" really planted but don't let that fool you. A MC tire offers FAR better traction in rain and on dry surfaces... it is simple physics. A MC tire has very little contact patch (about 1/4-1/2")and as such hydroplanes far less than a DS tire with a 6-8" contact patch. DS riders ALWAYS rave about traction which does not exist, I've tested it. The MC tire will out-perform the DS tire in emergency stopping, wet or dry. You also won't break the MC tire loose as easily in a extremely wet (standing water) curve as you will a DS, again tested. Don't get me wrong the rear of the bike isn't gonna go flying out from under you, but riding safely with either is the appropriate recommendation.
The DS tire because of its flat nature will "hunt" out any road imperfections. So if there is a groove in the road the rear tire will suck the front into that track. And contrary to the tire bending in a curve assertion, the tire rolls over the hump leading to the sidewall, hence the need to push harder to lean the bike over. Recommended psi is 32 which is right where you'd run a car tire, BUT most experienced DS riders put 100+ miles on the tire at 40 psi to soften the sidewalls before dropping to 32 psi. It simply softens/breaks in the tire quicker.
Advantages are the DS tire lasts about 30k miles, are easy to plug if you get a flat, and "feel" very planted.... If you have ridden a bike with a 250-300 series tire it is that same extra push to lean the bike into a curve and avoid the tires tendancy to stand the bike back up, not bad, just different.
You either really LIKE the DS tire, or you don't. It is purely a personal feel type thing and each tire DS or MC trades something off for that feel. I don't tow as often as I use to, so for "me" the DS tire is not an appropriate choice given my "current" riding habits. If I was towing more frequent, I'd be running a DS, so this isn't a diss the DS tire reply.
Hell use to be the only tires available for bikes were a car tire (think WWII) and through the years the MC tire evolved. Heck I remember running Continental MC tires on a bike of mine that lasted 30k and still looked new (hard as a rock rubber). Terrible traction but no wear, lol... The DS tire trend came back when Honda Valk riders couldn't get more than 4k out of a rear tire and decided to try another option, the Wingers joined in on the fun.
There are numerous video links on Youtube that show the tires reaction in a curve/turn, so please look into stuff yourself if this is something you are leaning towards. You'll also come across a DS tire blowout scare video, maybe two. We all know this happens on MC tires as well.
ps... using dyna beads for balancing them works best
OK. This is the post that was lacking on all this. I just happen to disagree with 99% of it though, lol.
Regards,
#32
08-16-2010, 09:18 PM
Sarge, I suspected you'd disagree, hence I said I would play "Devils advocate."
Truth is you can disagree all you like but you can't argue with science. I agree with you that the bike "feels" more planted, more secure but I'm going to pass on a friendly warning from someone with a bunch more miles than your 3k on darkside tires, you don't want not push that tire.
We agree that it is a safe and viable option, some like it some don't. Personally I prefer a bike tire, but like I said I've run a bunch of miles with a DS, mostly due to trailer hauling (somewhere around 70k if I was asked to guess).
As to agreeing or not.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZKhoFbL7Fo
Watch for yourself. Ride safe my friend.....
Truth is you can disagree all you like but you can't argue with science. I agree with you that the bike "feels" more planted, more secure but I'm going to pass on a friendly warning from someone with a bunch more miles than your 3k on darkside tires, you don't want not push that tire.
We agree that it is a safe and viable option, some like it some don't. Personally I prefer a bike tire, but like I said I've run a bunch of miles with a DS, mostly due to trailer hauling (somewhere around 70k if I was asked to guess).
As to agreeing or not.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZKhoFbL7Fo
Watch for yourself. Ride safe my friend.....
#33
08-16-2010, 09:40 PM
Sarge, I suspected you'd disagree, hence I said I would play "Devils advocate."
Truth is you can disagree all you like but you can't argue with science. I agree with you that the bike "feels" more planted, more secure but I'm going to pass on a friendly warning from someone with a bunch more miles than your 3k on darkside tires, you don't want not push that tire.
We agree that it is a safe and viable option, some like it some don't. Personally I prefer a bike tire, but like I said I've run a bunch of miles with a DS, mostly due to trailer hauling (somewhere around 70k if I was asked to guess).
As to agreeing or not.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZKhoFbL7Fo
Watch for yourself. Ride safe my friend.....
Truth is you can disagree all you like but you can't argue with science. I agree with you that the bike "feels" more planted, more secure but I'm going to pass on a friendly warning from someone with a bunch more miles than your 3k on darkside tires, you don't want not push that tire.
We agree that it is a safe and viable option, some like it some don't. Personally I prefer a bike tire, but like I said I've run a bunch of miles with a DS, mostly due to trailer hauling (somewhere around 70k if I was asked to guess).
As to agreeing or not.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZKhoFbL7Fo
Watch for yourself. Ride safe my friend.....
You are bent on making this personal, when its not.
When I joined this forum, I chose not to hide my face, or where I live at, and I make it a point not to say anything, unless I have the proof in my hand, or the study data to back it up, otherwise, I would be doing what you are doing: Speculatin' Bullshit.
This is the reason why I tell people that my bike is here now and come ride it. I could hide in anonimity behind my computer and say all kinds of things, but again, I would be speculating bullshit. Sound familiar?
You can say that you invented car tires on motorcycles, or you was the first one, but you have nothing to back it up. Your statement that a MC tire has more traction in the wet is the dumbest thing I heard yet. You ought to see my bike in the rain, spraying water all around it, because its displacing it sideways and to the rear, in a big rooster tail.
I am not a child that "THINKS" that I have traction when I don't. I am a grown man with a lifetime of doing analysis and assessments on all types of situations. And you are too late, I already pushed it more than I ever did my D407.
Having said all this, I have no interest in perpetuating this or arguing with you. My bike is here now, ready for testing. Speculation is not part of this deal.
This is my last post to you.
Regards,
Last edited by TooEasy; 08-16-2010 at 09:43 PM.
#34
08-16-2010, 09:43 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
TooEasy, I have looked at both of the links you give, IF I were to want to cross over to the darkside, What tire would I have to use (seems no dynas on the darkside yet) mine is a 2007 Screamin Eagle Dyna the stock MC tire was a dunlop D407 170/60 R17. I (at one time or another) been against this, any at the same time always wondered (I really hate replacing tires every 6000 miles) and trying to entertain different ideals. 
#35
08-16-2010, 10:31 PM
There ate two sides of this tire thing being presented here. One is the personal experience of the tire and the other is the extreme edge of the petformance between CTs and BTs. I doubt thst the OP rides at the the threshold of the CT performance in breaking and turning. If you're looking for that racers edge of performance, by all means, stick to motorcycle tires. If ya just need something on the back that works as a touring tyre, try a CT.
#36
08-16-2010, 10:48 PM
TooEasy, bud you got it all wrong, I have no wish to argue with you. I'm also a huge fan of having BOTH sides of a topic presented, nothing more. You like your set up great ride away. I'm also not trying to convince you of ANYTHING, nor am I trying to convince others of anything. Some of what you posted I agree with and some I do not. When you posted here you left the door open to discussion. If opposing views hurts your feeling, I apologize.
Maybe when you calm down you'll reread your last post and watch the video. Your own typed words provided the evidence that you are hydroplaning ("throwing water") and the video clearly shows the tire rolls over on it's edge rather than staying flat and flexing. If you are throwing roost, your tire is riding on water, aka hydroplaning. You can't throw whats not under the tire, it's science, not speculation, innuendo, or opinion.
Now I'm going to step away before this does go down the "making it personal" road.
I truly am glad you like the DS tire and wish you many happy miles, but I never speculate or BS.
Ride safe........ T
Maybe when you calm down you'll reread your last post and watch the video. Your own typed words provided the evidence that you are hydroplaning ("throwing water") and the video clearly shows the tire rolls over on it's edge rather than staying flat and flexing. If you are throwing roost, your tire is riding on water, aka hydroplaning. You can't throw whats not under the tire, it's science, not speculation, innuendo, or opinion.
Now I'm going to step away before this does go down the "making it personal" road.
I truly am glad you like the DS tire and wish you many happy miles, but I never speculate or BS.
Ride safe........ T
#37
08-16-2010, 10:53 PM
TooEasy, I have looked at both of the links you give, IF I were to want to cross over to the darkside, What tire would I have to use (seems no dynas on the darkside yet) mine is a 2007 Screamin Eagle Dyna the stock MC tire was a dunlop D407 170/60 R17. I (at one time or another) been against this, any at the same time always wondered (I really hate replacing tires every 6000 miles) and trying to entertain different ideals.
Did you look in the wheel and brake section at this post?
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/wheel...your-tire.html
One of these motorcycles might have the same wheel as yours, and it might save you a lot of work.
PM me your email, I need a little more info.
Regards,
Last edited by TooEasy; 08-17-2010 at 10:01 PM.
#38
08-16-2010, 11:32 PM
Road Warrior
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