Question: 07 SG Cams Upgrade & Power Commander
#1
07-14-2010, 01:58 PM
Question: 07 SG Cams Upgrade & Power Commander
Alright fellas, apologies, relative "noob" here. Here's the story and I'd appreciate your feedback:
Running a '07 SG w/ Stage I (SE intake, SE pipes, stock y-pipe). I bought it used and didn't remember to ask if he'd done the download (cause I'm new to this
)
Bought some lightly-used Andrews 37 cams and a SERT. Then went to my local shop (intentionally avoiding the overpriced Eastside Harley (bellevue, WA), Cyclepath, Kirkland WA:
here's what I've been told vis-a-vis perf mods and next steps: (1) lose the SERT, he won't touch it, its useless and they can't get it to work well; (2) to do the Andrews 37 cams install he'd also have to sell me new pushrods (I'm not a greasemonkey, to my chagrin) (3) I can have the cams installed but it'd run "lean", won't hurt the engine, but I'd not realize any benefit; (4) he highly recommends I get a PCIII for $375. Net-net, I'm looking at ~ $1K out the door to upgrade my cams and get a perf gain on my '07 SG. Oh and lastly, he said they're not seeing any marked improvement in going true duals vs. stock Y-pipe.
I'm just putting this out there to see what y'all think about this direction from the shop, ... I like and trust the guy, I just wanna know what you think about what I've been told about next steps on getting the most out of my SG.
Thanks all!
Running a '07 SG w/ Stage I (SE intake, SE pipes, stock y-pipe). I bought it used and didn't remember to ask if he'd done the download (cause I'm new to this
)Bought some lightly-used Andrews 37 cams and a SERT. Then went to my local shop (intentionally avoiding the overpriced Eastside Harley (bellevue, WA), Cyclepath, Kirkland WA:
here's what I've been told vis-a-vis perf mods and next steps: (1) lose the SERT, he won't touch it, its useless and they can't get it to work well; (2) to do the Andrews 37 cams install he'd also have to sell me new pushrods (I'm not a greasemonkey, to my chagrin) (3) I can have the cams installed but it'd run "lean", won't hurt the engine, but I'd not realize any benefit; (4) he highly recommends I get a PCIII for $375. Net-net, I'm looking at ~ $1K out the door to upgrade my cams and get a perf gain on my '07 SG. Oh and lastly, he said they're not seeing any marked improvement in going true duals vs. stock Y-pipe.
I'm just putting this out there to see what y'all think about this direction from the shop, ... I like and trust the guy, I just wanna know what you think about what I've been told about next steps on getting the most out of my SG.
Thanks all!
#2
07-14-2010, 03:02 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Is this a joke?
If not, my advice..... find another guy! Just based on his statement in #1 of losing the SERT because it's useless and they can't get it to work well would make me run far and fast. It just shows that he is an ***-hat and doesn't know how to tune a freaking bike. Obviously the guy doesn't have a dyno and simply wants a pre-mapped unit. Also, for pipes....everyone knows that duals don't have the performance that a stock crossover does. Better yet, get a 2-1 pipe. BTW, you don't need new pushrods......I assume that he doesn't want to deal with going through the rockers and simply wants to cut the old ones out?
If not, my advice..... find another guy! Just based on his statement in #1 of losing the SERT because it's useless and they can't get it to work well would make me run far and fast. It just shows that he is an ***-hat and doesn't know how to tune a freaking bike. Obviously the guy doesn't have a dyno and simply wants a pre-mapped unit. Also, for pipes....everyone knows that duals don't have the performance that a stock crossover does. Better yet, get a 2-1 pipe. BTW, you don't need new pushrods......I assume that he doesn't want to deal with going through the rockers and simply wants to cut the old ones out?
Last edited by dawg; 07-14-2010 at 03:08 PM.
#3
07-14-2010, 03:23 PM
I just swapped cams in my 07 RK a few weeks ago. I kept the stock pushrods, because I went through the rocker boxes. But I wasn't paying for labor. If I was to pay a mechanic to do the same job, I'd probably go ahead with the quick install pushrods, to save the additional 2 to 3 hour labor charge.
A SERT is an excellent tuning device. Lots of guys will say it's better than the add-on devices like the power commander. I have a power commander, but wish I'd have gone with the tts, which is essentially an updated SERT.
As far as true duals vs stock crossover, it kind of depends on how you ride. If you're in the upper rpm range, a good dual system like Rinehart true duals will make more hp. I've also seen some dyno charts posted at the Latus site that suggests they don't lose all that much down low, if the bike is properly tuned. Some guys are convinced that the only way to go is 2-1. I don't think that's necessarily true.
There's a few local shops who don't have dynos, and can't really handle tuning the SERT, but you can always have the work done at your shop and the bike tuned somewhere else. Lots of guys do that. There is an independant shop in Auburn with a very good reputation and a dyno that can easily handle a cam swap and tune.
Finally, hi neighbor. Welcome to the forum. You might take a minute and drop by the newcomers page and introduce yourself to the members.
A SERT is an excellent tuning device. Lots of guys will say it's better than the add-on devices like the power commander. I have a power commander, but wish I'd have gone with the tts, which is essentially an updated SERT.
As far as true duals vs stock crossover, it kind of depends on how you ride. If you're in the upper rpm range, a good dual system like Rinehart true duals will make more hp. I've also seen some dyno charts posted at the Latus site that suggests they don't lose all that much down low, if the bike is properly tuned. Some guys are convinced that the only way to go is 2-1. I don't think that's necessarily true.
There's a few local shops who don't have dynos, and can't really handle tuning the SERT, but you can always have the work done at your shop and the bike tuned somewhere else. Lots of guys do that. There is an independant shop in Auburn with a very good reputation and a dyno that can easily handle a cam swap and tune.
Finally, hi neighbor. Welcome to the forum. You might take a minute and drop by the newcomers page and introduce yourself to the members.
Last edited by Mike; 07-14-2010 at 03:40 PM.
#4
07-14-2010, 03:29 PM
(2) to do the Andrews 37 cams install he'd also have to sell me new pushrods (I'm not a greasemonkey, to my chagrin)
(3) I can have the cams installed but it'd run "lean", won't hurt the engine, but I'd not realize any benefit.
(4) he highly recommends I get a PCIII for $375.
Net-net, I'm looking at ~ $1K out the door to upgrade my cams and get a perf gain on my '07 SG. Oh and lastly, he said they're not seeing any marked improvement in going true duals vs. stock Y-pipe.
Out of curiosity, who suggested the TW37's and what do you hope to accomplish with this upgrade?
I would put the cams in yourself, say to hell with all the BS you're getting, and save yourself several $C. There are a number of good tutorials on this forum for a DIY cam job. If you don't want to go that route, find a tech who can work with SERT.
Last edited by iclick; 07-14-2010 at 03:42 PM.
#5
07-14-2010, 03:33 PM
The SERT is a better tuning tool than the PCIII, especially in more aggressive engine builds. Since you are only doing a cam change, either one would probably give you similar results, but I would not be ditching the SERT in order to spend additional money on the PCIII.
Your exhaust as is will be fine, but you could probably benefit from a better set of mufflers (Vance and Hines classic rounds perform very well as do Cycle Shack muffs). I wouldn't touch the head pipe unless you are ditching it for a 2-1 as Dawg mentioned.
I believe the 37 is a bolt in cam. However, depending on shop rates, you may pay more in labor to re-use your pushrods vs buying a set of adjustables. Depends on the shop.
Jarz performance in Abbotsford BC is a very well respected tuning shop that works with the SERT. It's a bit of a ride, but a well tuned bike is certainly worth it.
JMO
Zach
Your exhaust as is will be fine, but you could probably benefit from a better set of mufflers (Vance and Hines classic rounds perform very well as do Cycle Shack muffs). I wouldn't touch the head pipe unless you are ditching it for a 2-1 as Dawg mentioned.
I believe the 37 is a bolt in cam. However, depending on shop rates, you may pay more in labor to re-use your pushrods vs buying a set of adjustables. Depends on the shop.
Jarz performance in Abbotsford BC is a very well respected tuning shop that works with the SERT. It's a bit of a ride, but a well tuned bike is certainly worth it.
JMO
Zach
#6
07-14-2010, 03:53 PM
#7
07-14-2010, 05:38 PM
... more on this Andrews 37 upgrade
You guys are great ... so glad I joined this forum:
Like I said, I'm no greasemonkey, ... wish I were, just a riding enthusiast who loves modding $hit. But I might hit up my buddies who do know their way around their rides.
Thanks for all this ... and off to the noobie area I go
First, I agree with Dawg to lose this loser. Is this a Harley shop? If so, they should be able to tune with SERT since it is a Harley product. Either way, SERT is not "useless" and if this guy would say that he is the one who fits that description, IMO.
yes, harley shop
TD's will hurt performance where you likely ride (low-end), not help it. If performance is your priority I would use the stock head pipes and either keep the SE mufflers or buy something else. Or, buy a 2-into-1 system.
curious, did you conclude "where you likely ride" because of location (e.g. eastside, seattle suburbs, therefore city riding and the occasional long-haul)
Out of curiosity, who suggested the TW37's and what do you hope to accomplish with this upgrade?
upgraded cams because (a) I'm a notorious tweeker and I am so bad about wanting to "optimize" something that I'm convinced can be (b) did lots of reading here and other sites AND talked to riding buddy's that CAM upgrade was the first bang for buck perf upgrade. my closest buddy rides a '06 TC88 that he bored out and put cams in right after purchase cause he was so disappointed with perf. He's always encouraged new cams (c) a site I came across in my research reco'd Andrews 37s among the 5 or so possible upgrades possible for my particular ride and I got a great deal for 'em on ebay
I would put the cams in yourself, say to hell with all the BS you're getting, and save yourself several $C. There are a number of good tutorials on this forum for a DIY cam job. If you don't want to go that route, find a tech who can work with SERT.
yes, harley shop
TD's will hurt performance where you likely ride (low-end), not help it. If performance is your priority I would use the stock head pipes and either keep the SE mufflers or buy something else. Or, buy a 2-into-1 system.
curious, did you conclude "where you likely ride" because of location (e.g. eastside, seattle suburbs, therefore city riding and the occasional long-haul)
Out of curiosity, who suggested the TW37's and what do you hope to accomplish with this upgrade?
upgraded cams because (a) I'm a notorious tweeker and I am so bad about wanting to "optimize" something that I'm convinced can be (b) did lots of reading here and other sites AND talked to riding buddy's that CAM upgrade was the first bang for buck perf upgrade. my closest buddy rides a '06 TC88 that he bored out and put cams in right after purchase cause he was so disappointed with perf. He's always encouraged new cams (c) a site I came across in my research reco'd Andrews 37s among the 5 or so possible upgrades possible for my particular ride and I got a great deal for 'em on ebay
I would put the cams in yourself, say to hell with all the BS you're getting, and save yourself several $C. There are a number of good tutorials on this forum for a DIY cam job. If you don't want to go that route, find a tech who can work with SERT.
Thanks for all this ... and off to the noobie area I go
Trending Topics
#8
07-14-2010, 06:06 PM
I'm a little over 3 hours south of you. Bring it down here and you can help/watch swap the cams. My schedule is pretty hectic, but if your patient we could probably synch up. If you have the SERT CD, we might be able to find a canned map that will get you by until you can get it dialed in.
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've done several cam swaps. It's not that hard.
Zach
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've done several cam swaps. It's not that hard.
Zach
#9
07-14-2010, 06:16 PM
I'm a little over 3 hours south of you. Bring it down here and you can help/watch swap the cams. My schedule is pretty hectic, but if your patient we could probably synch up. If you have the SERT CD, we might be able to find a canned map that will get you by until you can get it dialed in.
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've done several cam swaps. It's not that hard.
Zach
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've done several cam swaps. It's not that hard.
Zach
Now you can't beat that...How close are you to York PA? Ha...that is too kewl...
#10
07-14-2010, 06:21 PM
I'm a little over 3 hours south of you. Bring it down here and you can help/watch swap the cams. My schedule is pretty hectic, but if your patient we could probably synch up. If you have the SERT CD, we might be able to find a canned map that will get you by until you can get it dialed in.
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've done several cam swaps. It's not that hard.
Zach
I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've done several cam swaps. It's not that hard.
Zach