I can't find the thread for this as it's a couple years old; if I remember right it was a "sticky". Anyway, Doc is the guy that tuned my bike, started at 9am and finished about 2pm doing 27 runs.

"Gentleman here are five questions you can ask your tuner to see what his skill level is without being conspicuous. These are 5 simple questions that a good experienced tuner can and will be able to spit out the answers correctly and without a great deal of thought and the whole time your asking them the questions it will seem like a general conversation of you getting a little knowledge of the tuning procedures from him. If your tuner can't answer all, or any, of these questions it's time for you to search out another shop.

1) How long will my bike be on the Dyno to tune the SERT?
(answer) 4 to 5 hours

2) How many Dyno runs will you have to make to finish a tune?
(answer) 50 to 70 on a average

3) What are people talking about when they say you have to SYNCHRONIZE the VE tables?
(answer) By Synchronizing the VE Table to the Fuel Table your telling the ECM the new air flow through the motor from the mods you made.

4) I heard something about a Step Test, can you tell me what that is?
(answer) The Step Test is a program in the winPEP 7 software (Dyno Software) that allows us to sample the AFR longer for a better reading at 2%, 5%, 7%, 10%, and 15% Throttle Position. This is where the bike lives so we want a good AFR sample to make our edits.

5) Do you change the AFR Table to one value as you tune?
(answer) Yes, 13.2. This makes it easier to synchronize the VE Table.

If your tuner can answer these simple questions chances are (99%) you will get a good tune. I hope this will give you all a better idea who your trusting your $20,000.00 investment with."

Just trying to help!
Doc

PS. If they don't answer all of the questions correctly, PLEASE give them my phone number for training - it's in my signature.

< Message edited by Doc 1 -- 4/6/2008 11:00:00 AM >

_____________________________

HDMD Tuning Center
352.242.9616
hdmd88@yahoo.com

 

After I did my build, using the PCIII and the "canned" map Fuelmoto provided, I took the bike in to them for a tune. It was not just a fuel management issue, there were also some timing adjustments to be made.
It made a huge difference, and without actually having the bike there on the dyno, a tuner is really making their best guess as to what map is best. In my case, there may have been enough "unknown" factor from the porting/polishing of the heads rather than an off-the-shelf head to cause the disconnect.

The before and after:

 

This may be true for most DJ dealers, but not all. Fuel Moto dyno-tunes hundreds of bikes every year and has accumulated a large library of maps that they provide their PCV customers free. In comparing DJ and FM maps for the same application they are not the same, and in most cases not even close. Most who use the FM-provided maps find them very close and accurate. In my case, after adding Auto-Tune the trim adjustments made were very small, which is testimony to the accuracy of the original map. I suspect that most who claim noticeable improvement after a dyno-tune have something in the mix that is not identical with the configuration of the original canned map.

An accurate tune made in MN on an '07 RK will run as well in LA on a like-equipped '07 SG, for example. The on-board sensors (MAP, etc.) on the bike are still fully functional when the PCV is attached, and they compensate very well to changes in altitude, humidity, temperature, etc. Fuel Moto does not have a map for every conceivable configuration, and I suspect that is the reason Jamesw's dyno-tune produced more power compared to the original FM map, as head-work is a variable in the equation and not every port-and-polish job will be the same. In those cases you are best served by either buying the Auto-Tune kit or getting a dyno-tune performed by a competent human tuner. That last factor is not a given, BTW.

OTOH, for most riders with common configurations I believe a competently created "canned" map will be a very good and cost-effective tuning solution.

 

The fellow who tuned my bike said the map I had in my PCV from fuel moto was the exact same map you could download from the PC site for my configuration.

 

Thats 2... And dont think I'm trying to get down on FM, Not even a little bit.. But if there is truth to what I was told than shouldnt we know about it? The guys I bought my PCV from ONLY do dyno work and performance work.. So they do it too..

 

I can't comment on the statements made by your tuner, nor the motives he may have for making them, but Fuel Moto does not obtain their maps from DJ. The ones I've gotten for my bike are not even close to those provided by DJ and I know it is not their policy to simply transfer maps from another source. If there was one person other than yourself would've made that observation and echoed it here, but in several years of perusing this forum and others I've never heard that accusation before.

 

Just trying to see if it's true.. Not accuse anyone of anything.. It's supposedly due to the million dollars they just paid out to Cali.

I did email Dynojet and he danced around my question. Never gave a direct answer.

I asked specifically if a retailer can sell a new PC with their own maps. Not one from DJ.

He stated that anyone can. No that the retailer can.. You can look at it two ways I guess..

But like I said I'm not trying to trash anyone. Just researching info I was told.

Now I know one thing.. My bike ran hot as it did before the PCV was installed and only after the tune did the heat drop. So that leads me to believe that the bikes are running just as lean as stock. Unless dyno tuned..

I also had to sign a waiver stating the bike was going to be used for track use only.

 

Lol i don't think my tuner has any strange motives.... he's a reputable guy, Lee at Jarz in Abbotsford BC. He said the map from fuel moto/DJ was very close to what my bike wanted, mostly just a little lean and that's how he got a little more out of it.

 

the way i understand it is dynojet gets some of its maps from fuelmoto.

 

Well I guess I have to chime in here, not an expert by any stretch... I recently did a 103" build, let me rephrase that, my indy installed a 103" bb kit in my 09' FLHTCU. In hindsight the bike worked like crap for the first few hundred miles and might I add at the the time DJ only had 1 103" map on their site -WTH?? Anyhow, I filled out their online tech support forum as my AT wasn't functioning and to this day I still haven't received a response. It was another member on this forum that troubleshot my setup and found the problem and i can honestly say the AT works very well as I do see a night and day difference in my bike. I would love a dyno tune but the only one I have access to, apparently noone knows how to use it at my dealer - seriously...

My question is now that my trims are minimal at best and I'm happy with my bike would a tune still be beneficial? BTW my next AFR management system will not be DJ - how can I justify an $800 investment and expect support like that???? No offence to fuelmoto but why should I have to purchase this from a reseller to expect any form of support after the sale?

I run Woods TW-7h cams and I can pick up the phone almost anytime and Bobby will answer any questions I have - now that's service! My next AFR management will be from Zippers. I realize I'm raving on here but I just needed to add my .02 .